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  • metro sub-frame question

    I am still deciding which engine to go for, 'k' series/honda. The 'k' series seems to be by far the most economical route, I have read here that the metro sub-frame can be used and the 'k' series 1.8 vii engine will bolt straight onto it (correct me if i'm wrong) but it means that the front of the mini is lengthened, I really don't want a longer mini, so( i'll get there in a minute) can't the metro sub-frame be shortened at the front?

  • #2
    it'll go under a clubby, or a +90mm roundnose.

    after looking at dizzees the other day the blocks just too far foreward, unless you want to move the block back and have horrible angles on your driveshafts.

    not only that, the alternators in the way too.
    too many minis, not enough time!

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    • #3
      http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5992

      metro frame modified to go under a round nose, far from simple, if your determined to stuck with a round nose, a mini-based frame is easier(in the sence that many have been built and information is easier to obtain), but both require lots of fabrication and trickery.
      evolotion
      Senior Member
      Last edited by evolotion; 11-10-2010, 10:12 PM.
      [email protected] :)

      Denis.

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      • #4
        if using the metro subframe brings the engine forward doesn't that increase the wheel base? assuming the driveshafts are aligned to the hubs, for want of a better term, would it not be easier to cut and shut the metro subframe both ways, length and width to make the best solution?

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        • #5
          I think it lengthens the wheelbase by about 25mm if I remember correctly.
          Saloon K Series conversion sold
          Clubby Estate K Series conversion sold

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          • #6
            Originally posted by r08rob View Post
            if using the metro subframe brings the engine forward doesn't that increase the wheel base? assuming the driveshafts are aligned to the hubs, for want of a better term, would it not be easier to cut and shut the metro subframe both ways, length and width to make the best solution?
            no the metro frame incorporates the rack and fouls the bulkhead, every car here with a metro frame has it as far back as it can go. if you wish to moove the wheels further back you need to do as matt did in the link i gave you.
            [email protected] :)

            Denis.

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            • #7
              thanks for the thread denis, the amount of info on this site is awsome, keep up the good work.

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              • #8
                not sure if i missed this in the thread but what effect does shortening the wheelbase on the mini have to handling, i guess it would steer quicker but what about straight line stability especially under power, assuming you brace the subframe above all to counteract against toe in, increasing under full squirt. I think i would keep mine the full width to again counteract the shortened wheelbase. (sorry should have said, i think i'll be using a metro s/frame).
                r08rob
                Senior Member
                Last edited by r08rob; 13-10-2010, 11:07 AM.

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                • #9
                  When you say wheelbase, do you mean track? I see no reason why you would shorten the wheelbase (distance between front and rear wheels), actually, I see no reason why you would narrow the Mini's track (distance between left and right wheel) either.

                  I'm not too sure what you're getting at really. If you use the Metro subframe, both the wheelbase AND track are increased, not decreased.
                  Saloon K Series conversion sold
                  Clubby Estate K Series conversion sold

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                  • #10
                    *edit* misread post, sorry
                    Watsons frame in a standard length front, they said it was impossible ...

                    Build Thread - standard length round nose B series with Watsons frame, it is possible

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                    • #11
                      I got the wrong end the stick and thought the wheel base changed, front to rear length when if the sub frame was moved back which it doesn't, I realise now that it's the engine that moves back.

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                      • #12
                        The engine doesn't move back though.

                        If you use a Metro subframe, the front wheels are further forward, wider apart, and the engine is mounted quite far forward, hence the requirement for either a Clubman front or 90mm extended round nose.

                        You can't simply move the engine back in the frame, as the drive shaft angles would be horrible.

                        So, unless you do a lot of fabrication work, you will end up with slightly longer wheelbase, wider track (unless you use positive offset wheels to pull them back in) and the engine further forward. What affect does this have on handling? Well, at Castle Combe this year I managed to successfully pilot my Watsons framed K Series round the track taking some corners way too fast and had no issues. I have no understeer issues (in fact, if anything I can get it to lose the rear easier than the front), the car is VERY predictable and to be honest, doesn't feel that much different to my old A Series set up.
                        Saloon K Series conversion sold
                        Clubby Estate K Series conversion sold

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                        • #13
                          cheers.

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                          • #14
                            I did manage to move my engine back towards the bulkhead by almost an inch by shorting the rear of the mounting legs,
                            http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/sh...t=20194&page=3 this is shown towards the bottom of the page.

                            Part way down page 8 http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/sh...t=20194&page=8 shows the angle of the drive shaf looking from the top…… looks quite straight

                            Gavin

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                            • #15
                              I may be wrong but I think the K sits leaning forward in the metro frame so it can be stood more upright and moved back whilst the relative driveshaft positions remain close to before - I'm sure I read on Geehawks website that he was able to change the engine position and move it back about an inch too
                              Watsons frame in a standard length front, they said it was impossible ...

                              Build Thread - standard length round nose B series with Watsons frame, it is possible

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