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Birdman's Back To Front XE Build

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  • I would love to see some pictures of your diff stays, i think i might be having similar issues so would be good to see what you have done

    great to see you again today, was a shame about the issues in the morning, but you got it sorted in the end didn't you?
    Originally posted by InstantCustard
    If the price is right and you stick to your word, I'd give you a go!

    Comment


    • Well MITP went like a flash and I can't say I really enjoyed the day. Lets face it having to wait up to 1 hour 40 mins for a run is getting stupid, however I do live so near and there are better quieter RWYB days and eves to go.

      Yeah nice to meet everyone. I think as a club now we have a good group of guys who are willing to help and support each other, when things go tits up, which they do a lot ( bloody Minis).

      So i blew a hose within 1 minute of arriving and fixing that took up the morning. My diff steady is so similar to yours Chris. Just a rose jointed turnbuckle affair. It didn't however help for the change to 3rd gear. Couldn't get a clear change. So Iguess I have to look deeper at the box itself and selector mechanism. Something is a miss and taking the piss.

      Just got a couple of runs in at 15 secs. I've done 14.8 with no Nos before and that was another issue. I think it did work partially as the 15 sec runs were missing 3rd and then eventually getting again, but I felt that it was supplying gas and not liquid Nos, so more things to discover and learn. Car is in the sin bin until I can get a new replacement hose.

      I know a lot of us were pretty low at the end of the day, but I guess thats just racing. Nice to see you Shaun again.

      I am v tempted to squeeze in the C20LET this winter, but we will have to see. Great performance from Charlie in his turboed Rover Clubman. Congrats on the 12.4 sec ET, only narrowly beaten by the fastest car of the day and that is no road car with 4x4 Cosworth engine circa 385bhp.
      Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
      (use Irish accent)

      Comment


      • OK so read a fair bit on internet forums yesterday and most reckon that the synchros on these boxes cannot take the high rpm changes when they have had some abuse. Particularly 3rd and 4th gear synchros.

        I have located and will pick up an F18WR with the lower (middle) 3.74 FD hopefully today. Its a 70k box and comes with everything. This, if the box is all OK, should scrub up to 0.5 off of my 1/4 ET and be doing approx 100 - 105mph at the line without Nos. It will allow me to fit the Helix paddle plate clutch at the same time, but without an uprated cover. This Helix say can handle up to 30% increase in torque, whilst keeping the same pedal pressure required.

        I will also try to source an F18WR 3.94 FD box in case it's needed . This can give approx high 13 sec ET as it's pretty low FD. I will attempt to get the car into the 13's before the end of the year. Gearboxes are £50 so it's more time and hassle swapping the diff out more than anything else as I just swap the gear clusters into the F20 Casing which remains in the car bolted to the engine.

        On a mission now
        Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
        (use Irish accent)

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        • Many thanks for letting me have a place on the stand, It was nice to meet everyone.

          In my experience F20 gearboxes have long lazy synchros, especially moving up gears, what you need is one of these https://shop.quaife.co.uk/catalogsea...8&model=607&q=

          or if we were really serious http://www.sadev-tm.com/en/gearboxes.../4wdt/?pid=122
          To insanity & beyond!!

          Geoff

          Comment


          • Originally posted by spNOam View Post
            Many thanks for letting me have a place on the stand, It was nice to meet everyone.

            In my experience F20 gearboxes have long lazy synchros, especially moving up gears, what you need is one of these https://shop.quaife.co.uk/catalogsea...8&model=607&q=

            or if we were really serious http://www.sadev-tm.com/en/gearboxes.../4wdt/?pid=122
            Well I just bought the F18WR 3.74 AND F16WR 3.94 Today. Total cost £100 as I sold my 4x4 F20 box to Ezerpm on here for their race car.Worth a punt for those prices, so I have all the Final Drives available to me. The F16WR Has the really high 5th so may be liveable for a while..

            I'll just stick with the ATB diff from Quaife for now. The synchros do get worn and then cannot do there thing at high rpm, but they last a while.

            I'll spend my money on a C20LET Geoff instead for the time being
            Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
            (use Irish accent)

            Comment


            • good to see ya all to,
              the syncro hubs cause a snappy scrunch,,crunch even some times when not pushing it in a race change,
              do I remember your problem> was it a confused change or dificalty engageing 3rd thro bad gear selector?
              ive looked at them mechinisams often and they give me the ShiTs
              me being a lazy coont I would be trying a good brand name one first,,
              "yuck ,more like a 3 r2"
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tb261HwQNDQ
              SAY WHAT YOU BELEVE,,BELEVE WHAT YOU LIKE,
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3JhaTwP7uuk

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ardonfast View Post
                good to see ya all to,
                the syncro hubs cause a snappy scrunch,,crunch even some times when not pushing it in a race change,
                do I remember your problem> was it a confused change or dificalty engageing 3rd thro bad gear selector?
                ive looked at them mechinisams often and they give me the ShiTs
                me being a lazy coont I would be trying a good brand name one first,,
                I just think it's time to try the other final drive ratios as I'm running the highest and wrong one for the 1/4 mile stuff. I'm happy with the WR boxes generally. I've got a B&M shifter on mine Shaun. I rather fancy the 3.94 will be good for a bit of drag action and then settle on the 3.74 for the road.
                Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
                (use Irish accent)

                Comment


                • yes you know what you need graham, are you doing now or in winter after you had some use?
                  "yuck ,more like a 3 r2"
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=tb261HwQNDQ
                  SAY WHAT YOU BELEVE,,BELEVE WHAT YOU LIKE,
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=3JhaTwP7uuk

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by spNOam View Post
                    Many thanks for letting me have a place on the stand, It was nice to meet everyone.

                    In my experience F20 gearboxes have long lazy synchros, especially moving up gears, what you need is one of these https://shop.quaife.co.uk/catalogsea...8&model=607&q=

                    or if we were really serious http://www.sadev-tm.com/en/gearboxes.../4wdt/?pid=122
                    Im sorry but both of those are rubbish.
                    What you need is an Xtrac 1046 http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsp...car/product/84
                    Or for more power the 426 http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsp...car/product/64

                    Anyone looking at AWD should be looking at the 1113 http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsp...oad/product/98


                    But I might be slightly biased.
                    However I can personally guaranty that you wont have any issues with syncros since I make the dog rings for all of them.



                    Sorry to hear that you are still struggling with the gear changes Birdman, but I am glad that you got some runs in and got the car home in one piece after the pipe failure.
                    With the LSD in there, and having bent my lower subframe/ engine mount bracket I think there may be some issues with the engine wanting to turn backwards more than the wheels moving forward so some extra steadies may be worth looking into. Its something I will be trying to do soon!

                    It might pay to look into cable linkage as this will remove any problems with engine movement during gear changes since the rod change is pretty much directly linked to the gearbox with no flexibility isn't it?
                    Originally posted by InstantCustard
                    If the price is right and you stick to your word, I'd give you a go!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Burnard View Post
                      Im sorry but both of those are rubbish.
                      What you need is an Xtrac 1046 http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsp...car/product/84
                      Or for more power the 426 http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsp...car/product/64

                      Anyone looking at AWD should be looking at the 1113 http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsp...oad/product/98


                      But I might be slightly biased.
                      However I can personally guaranty that you wont have any issues with syncros since I make the dog rings for all of them.



                      Sorry to hear that you are still struggling with the gear changes Birdman, but I am glad that you got some runs in and got the car home in one piece after the pipe failure.
                      With the LSD in there, and having bent my lower subframe/ engine mount bracket I think there may be some issues with the engine wanting to turn backwards more than the wheels moving forward so some extra steadies may be worth looking into. Its something I will be trying to do soon!

                      It might pay to look into cable linkage as this will remove any problems with engine movement during gear changes since the rod change is pretty much directly linked to the gearbox with no flexibility isn't it?
                      Yes I thought about the cable setup Chris, having seen it on 3 cars at MITP, but I reckon the missed gearchange on 3rd may be down to the synchros being hammered. There is quite a bit of talk about it on DaewooTech forum and they use the F18WR quite a bit on their 1/4 mile cars with redtop engine. I'm just trying to skip this problem and wasting time by getting the different ratio FD gearboxes. I know Alex who used to be on this forum ran a 13.2 sec ET with his Redtop Mini ( it is very light though) with the 3.94 FD 1st time out with about 170hp and he said the engine was smoky. So I think that is the box I'll swap to for dragging. A mid 13ET and then add Nos.

                      Just picked up a F18WR 3.74 Box v local to me and looks great. Only 70k miles and I trust the seller, who worked as a mechanic. Came with shafts, cvs, gear change and all mounts, so sell off a couple of un-needed parts and it will be mega cheap. Spilt a small amount of gearbox oil when I yankes the driveshafts out and it is the proper red Vauxhall stuff and the cleanest I've ever seen. I'll probably use this as my road gearbox.

                      If you think about it the WR gearboxes that came off a diesel are used to redline of 5000 and rarely get revved to that. Now with the Redtop in 3rd it sees up to 7250. I guess the syncros are pretty much the same as in the CR boxes but with this box on the XE it is being revved consistantly higher in 3rd most of the time. I rechecked and my gear linkage hasn't moved..
                      Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
                      (use Irish accent)

                      Comment


                      • Wow, nearly 4 years since last posting! Let's see if pictures upload OK.

                        Managed to fit my 3.74FD gearbox after some difficulties. Quaife LSD back in and subframe built up with a touch up of black paint here and there... Gave the old beast a clean and wax too. Want to get the car in good shape even if COVID19 has screwed this year.
                        Attached Files
                        Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
                        (use Irish accent)

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                        • Had some good luck in that during dismantling and rebuilding the transmission, I found one of my outer mini CV joints had given up. Luckily I had built up a good kit of spares including brand new CVs from minispares, so didn't have to order and wait for those and I found I had bought a great 110v buzz gun for a couple of quid, which worked wonders removing the hub nuts. On the bad news side, I have been investigating a noise from inside the engine somewhere. I found nothing untoward inside the cambelt cover and my conclusion is that the sump and exhaust manifold will have to come off. I'm thinking the o ring on the oil pickup pipe may have failed and a securing bolt may have dropped out. I won't know until I get in there though...
                          Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
                          (use Irish accent)

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                          • Car, as she looks now in pics.
                            Have another exciting long term mini project going on at the same time. Need to work out how to embed full size pictures I think? 20200429_102701.jpg20200429_102701.jpg20200429_102701.jpg
                            Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
                            (use Irish accent)

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                            • I really don't think I ever saw your car in full...more pics please 😀
                              Quickly now, before I think it through!
                              https://www.facebook.com/BrutalacGarageProjects

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                              • I'll try and find some more... the ones from the earlier build diary are gone.
                                Whale Oil Beef Hooked!
                                (use Irish accent)

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