No announcement yet.

Mini Clubman Mid engined Lancia Twin Cam 1995cc - 30 years in the making......

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    mate, ran into same issue with my pickup.
    Basically my engine, gearbox, steering, suspension was all different to the original car design.
    You score 2 points for retained parts from mini, so mini suspension, steering, engine, gearbox.
    8 points, keep original plate. Get 0, like in my case, IVA and Q plate.
    I don`t mind at all, especially since my plate is Q997 OAS. The 997 bit is cool.


    • #32
      Nice plate, I've accepted it now, just one of those things, no doubt by the time mine is finished they would have changed the rules again.


      • #33
        Not much to update, I've slowly been getting some bits sorted for the 16v turbo engine.

        Back in mid August I finally got four wheels under my new engine

        Now I purchased the engine blind off of a total stranger on Facebook, so was fully aware it could be a wreck, even though he assured me "it was a good runner", and said "I know it's a good engine with no faults" and "all was good when removed gears all good pulled well with no issues".

        The real story it would seem is that it was removed from a car that had been in a front end accident, the oil filter was holed, the oil turbo return pipe was bent and the silicon elbow melted where it had pushed against the hot turbo, also the turbo water cooling pipe was bent as well. After carrying out a compression test one cylinder was at 50 PSI, the others were all about 100 PSI, so its clearly a very poorly engine.

        I'm not particularly fussed about this, as it was always going to be stripped and rebuilt, just hope the cranks OK - these engines are getting increasingly rare.

        I managed to source a new silicon elbow, also a second-hand elbow to fit on the turbo, but the pipe that screwed in to the block was also damaged (see above picture), and I couldn't find one of these. So I removed it and very carefully straightened it, and it will now be perfectly serviceable.

        After changing the oil filter, and changing the engine oil (there was quite a lot left in it) I could not get it to build oil pressure. I removed the filter and used our oil dispenser to pump oil around the engine, then cranked the engine with the filter off and oil came out quite quickly. Then after refitting the filter and cranking again it has good pressure. Once this was done I then checked the compression, and found one cylinder was half what the others were . It would have been nice if it was a good runner, as then the car could be built with a running engine, and made sure everything was OK with the build prior to spending serious money on the engine.

        I've managed to track down some other parts, ECU and plug, rear engine mounting bracket, left hand diff flange and driveshaft, and right hand inner and outer drive shaft. Currently waiting on the flange and right hand drive shafts to arrive. Just want to make sure I've got the bits I'll need that may be hard to find in the future.

        I've not done anything to the Mini as I'm still finishing off the DIY at home, and still need to sort the garage out, which is a mammoth job.


        • #34
          Seems someone else beat to getting a Lancia Beta Twin Cam in a Mini, and they got it in the front, I also found mention of another, possibly in New Zealand.

          On another note my right hand inner & outer driveshaft arrived from the Netherlands, and my left hand diff flange arrived from Germany.
          Last edited by Ronski; 05-12-2019, 06:52 PM.


          • #35
            I purchased a couple of wheel hub flanges for a Fiat Coupe 16vt, thinking they had 42mm ID bearings but the flanges that arrived were for 37mm, I think may be later Fiat Coupe's had 42mm ID bearings. The good thing is the CV's fit the flanges, and the Lancia Beta as far as I can tell had 37mm ID bearings, the Beta had 25 splines in the CV joints - looking up the Fiat parts they are also 25 spline, so possibly even the same flange. All this also means that I may be able to use my driveshafts.


            • #36
              I've been thinking about the my front suspension and brakes setup.

              I'm using Fiat drive flanges on the rear (4 bolt 98mm PCD), so ideally need Fiat flanges on the front, now these are 42mm OD where the bearing seats (bearing size is 80 x 42 x 37 which is OD x ID x W)

              I've seen that AGoaty is fitting huge AP 4 pots from a MG TF 160 with the 304mm discs albeit with the MG subframe, and Oz also supplied some information and a link to this thread discussing fitting the MG hubs to the Mini subframe.

              As far as I can tell the MG TF bearings are 38.13mm ID x 68mm OD x 37mm width. So it should be possible to machine the above Fiat flange down to fit the MG bearing/hub assembly - I know the flange is strong enough at 37mm as thats what I have in respect to my previous post, so 38 will be fine (the CV joint is the same for both flanges). Obviously the flange face may sit further out or in though.

              There is a 305mm disc available for the fiat hub, but the height 44.7mm and thickness is 28mm of the disc dithers from the MG TF disc which is 38.6 high and 24mm thick, whilst I could space the caliper back not sure there will be enough space in the caliper to cope with an extra 4mm of disc thickness although I see the calipers bolt together with an external fluid pipe, so it could be possible to make a larger spacer to space each half further apart, any thoughts?

              Or I could just run with the MG PCD on the front and different wheels on the rear, although Ideally I'd like to have the same front and rear?

              PS Aware I'll need at least 16" wheels and I'm fine with that.
              Last edited by Ronski; 05-01-2020, 09:13 AM.


              • #37
                I've been doing a bit more investigating today, it actually looks like the MG disc will fit the Fiat hub flange, the Fiat centring is 59mm and MG is 58mm, so the hub could be machined to take the MG disc. There's a stepped shoulder on the flange so shouldn't affect the wheel fitting.

                The Fiat PCD is 98mm, and the MG 95.3mm, I drew these in Sketchup and the holes when overlapped measure 11.84mm, so a little elongation and the wheel bolts will fit.

                Only variable I don't know at the moment is is where the face of the Fiat flange will be relative to the face of the MG flange, this ideally needs to be the same to suit caliper position.
                Last edited by Ronski; 05-01-2020, 11:18 AM.


                • #38
                  Yesterday whilst searching for dimensions and information on the MG TF 304mm brakes, up popped an advert for "MG F TF Trophy AP Racing brakes 4 Pot Calipers, discs, pads, hubs for kit car etc."

                  They were collection only, turned out to be 47 miles away, so it seemed very rude not to make an offer on them of £150, which was accepted

                  So I'm now the owner of these

                  They are surprisingly heavy, which is one advantage of using the MG disc - it's 1.4kg lighter than the Fiat Coupe disc, I certainly wouldn't want to make the unsprung weight any heavier.

                  Just looking up some more information ( is very useful), the CV joint has 25 outer splines, as does the Fiat one, now what are the chances its the same??? If it is I could possibly use the rear hub assembly (still could if I change the flange), and therefore keep the MG PCD, and rear brake setup. Something to think about.
                  Last edited by Ronski; 05-01-2020, 04:05 PM.


                  • #39
                    Now in answer to the question, are the splines on the Fiat and the MG CV the same........

                    Above is Fiat flange on the MG TF CV joint and below is the MG TF flange on the Fiat CV

                    Yes they are, how's that for luck?

                    Now there is a couple of issues, the MG CV joint doesn't fully go into the Fiat flange, the splines are about 5mm shorter on the CV joint, easy answer is machine the splines out of the inner end of the flange. This is only an issue if I wanted to use MG CV joint to hold the Fiat flange and bearing together, which I may. On the rear I'd want to use the Fiat CV joint as I think it's going to be stronger, and my existing shafts will hopefully fit.

                    Now the second issue is the Fiat CV joint is fatter, so doesn't fit in the rear of the swivel hub (or knuckle as some call them). Now I think there is enough excess metal, namely the ABS ring, and another section nearer the bearing which bulges out that can be machined off, alternatively I think the Lancia CV might fit better (no ABS ring).

                    The CV being fatter is only an issue if I use the MGF rear hubs I've just purchased, complete with calipers and discs. Not quite sure what I'm doing with the rear at the moment, as I need a new lower suspension arm, or I might even go double wishbone and ever convert the Fiat assembly or use the MGF hubs.

                    If I can keep MG flanges front and rear then the discs fit without modification, and the wheels has studs and nuts like a traditional Mini.
                    Last edited by Ronski; 09-01-2020, 07:45 PM.


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ronski View Post
                      If I can keep MG flanges front and rear then the discs fit without modification, and the wheels has studs and nuts like a traditional Mini.
                      Just be aware the MGF has a 4x3.75" PCD which makes finding wheels a bit harder. Some classic style 13 and 14 inch wheels are available in this PCD (usually as Triumph fitment) otherwise you'd be better redrilling the PCD to 4x100
                      Watsons frame in a standard length front, they said it was impossible ...

                      Build Thread - standard length round nose B series with Watsons frame, it is possible


                      • #41
                        Thanks for that Oz, I'd be better off using the Fiat flanges then, which are 4 x 98mm PCD, I'd just need to elongate the holes in the MG brake disc a little, the flanges will need machining to fit the MG bearing.


                        • #42
                          I've been working out what needs modifying on the Fiat flange to fit the MG TF hub, so I drew both flanges in Sketchup.

                          The MG TF one is on the left , and the Fiat on the right, both look the same but there are differences, most of them work in my favour.


                          The below two pictures show the metal that needs to be removed from the Fiat flanges, the Fiat flange will then fit the MG TF hub. The only downside is the face of the flange is 3mm too far in, so to overcome that I have purchased 3mm spacers which will sit between the flange and the disc, the disc will then be in the correct position.

                          Model- front of flange.jpgModel - rear of flange.jpg

                          For the rear brakes I will most likely use a Fiat Coupe front disc which is 280mm and vented, along with a suitable caliper, certain Golfs use a vented rear disc and I believe the caliper will be suitable, the piston is also 38mm the same as the MG TF one, which I think in theory means if I use a master cylinder with the same bore as the MG TF the brakes should be about right, but I'll worry about that later.

                          I've seen a lot of talk about scrub radius, but from what little I've read if I use the same size/offset wheels & tyres as the MG TF then I think the scrub radius should be correct, and if I use Cooper S steering arms (if these can still be found) these are stronger than standard Mini ones, and hopefully Ackerman angle won't be far out. As for bump steer I've no idea, but I'll check that out latter.


                          • #43
                            I seem to have gained some wheels for the Mini, spotted these on eBay 3 weeks ago, but they were collection only and in central London near Hyde Park. Anyway he's been slowly dropping the price (I'm probably not the only one who didn't want to drive into central London), so last week I made an offer which was accepted. I collected them this morning, which meant a 160 mile / 4.75 hours round trip, but leaving at 8am meant it wasn't too busy with traffic. They have loads of tread on all the tyres, but there is some minor curbing on a couple of the rims, otherwise they look great.

                            I wasn't going to bother, as the width and offset may well not be correct, but for now they are close enough and gives me something to work with. The tyres are 195/45R16, and the wheels are from a Fiat 500 Abarth and are 6.5" wide with an ET35 offset. The hubs I'll be using on the front are from a MG TF and they run the same tyre but with a 7" rim and ET28. I may go 7" rim, slightly different size tyres and may also need a different offset to get the scrub radius correct .

                            Tyre options I've come up with at the moment.

                            185/60R13 = 552mm diameter (currently fitted - shown for reference)
                            215/35R16 = 557mm not very common
                            195/40R16 = 562mm
                            215/40R16 = 578mm plenty available
                            195/45R16 = 582mm (Fiat 500)
                            205/45R16 = 591mm
                            205/50R16 = 611mm size fitted to Fiat 16vt Coupe (shown for reference)
                            Last edited by Ronski; 08-03-2020, 02:47 PM.


                            • #44
                              Earlier in the week I collected my machined flanges, one flange is a fraction loose as it just slides into the bearing, but it does mean its easy to test assemble, although for final assembly I'll have to use some bearing Loctite or even centre dot it a little or get another machined up.

                              2020-03-09 15.27.27.jpg

                              Assembled with spacer behind the disc the caliper lines up correctly

                              2020-03-09 15.28.16.jpg

                              Although the wheels will require an additional spacer of at least 3mm which gives a caliper clearance of about 2mm. One benefit of spacing the wheel out is it effectivley decreases the off set back closer to the ET28 that the MG TF's run.

                              2020-03-09 15.35.42.jpg
                              2020-03-09 15.35.36.jpg

                              I'm off work this week and next using up unused holiday, I'm supposed to be sorting the garage out, but I'm not getting much done, although am making progress on it albeit slow progress.


                              • #45
                                I've done very little since my last post, I've had to work all the way through Covid19 so haven't had any additional time off, I haven't even managed to get the garage cleaned out yet

                                I have made a engine lift bracket so I can lift the engine up level and get it cleaned though, hopefully the start of some progress, but there's no rush.

                                Engine lift beam.jpg

                                Attached Files