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#16 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cumbria UK
Posts: 1,429
Subframe: AMT
CC: 1998
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: DTA
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![]() I'm getting the impression that the top race arm (not the road one) may be a tad suspect as I'm led to believe :roll: Its hopefully ![]() The quote on miniclassic you mean? finally yes i know what your saying, as Matt said its not the place to spread unsupported rumours ![]() PS it better had be strong as my new evolution of the mini will be road legal although 90% track use ![]() Rich
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Mr 'No patience with dumbass newbies who can't use the search function' XE powered AMT Race frame and Allspeed VTEC Mini builder, (plus some 5 and 8 ports too) ![]() Youtube Channel |
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#17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Arlesey, Beds
Posts: 974
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Given up! Trying to sell it now!! |
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#18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cumbria UK
Posts: 1,429
Subframe: AMT
CC: 1998
Make: Vauxhall
ECU: DTA
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![]() ![]() Even that german has to find the limits somehow ![]() Going off topic but if theres any bit i would beef up on the AMT frames its the plate that the tie bar mounts through, mine is bent, i suspect its flexing under pressure, possibly giving rise to the problems i had with the tracking wandering, just my feelings of course. All i intend to do is weld another flat piece on possibly with a small 90 deg lip to stop it flexing. Rich
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Mr 'No patience with dumbass newbies who can't use the search function' XE powered AMT Race frame and Allspeed VTEC Mini builder, (plus some 5 and 8 ports too) ![]() Youtube Channel |
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#19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South Park, Colorado
Posts: 889
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You're just talking about the Race frame, or the road frame aswell? We're getting the indication that a frame designed for rallying is the strongest, one designed for typical road use is the intermediate, and then race-only use is the weaker of the three... So, is an AMT frame used on the road insufficiently strong- as it was only proven for race use? Or are we just talking about the race frame? ![]() Finally, If something like a top arm is bent, is it defined as 'broken' or not? It might not have structurally failed, but it has indeed failed from a material /strength/overload aspect... |
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#20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 4,464
Subframe: Other
CC: 1998
Make: Other
ECU: Trionic 5.5
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IIRC
There are two, one for road, and one for track. The road frame deals with pot holes and the like. The race frame is made only for race tracks (Not Rallying, as track and rally stages are two different things)!! You wouldn't drive a formula ford on the road would you? I don't think that suspension is designed to travel as much as a road car and would break too. Come on guys, use your heads!! it doesn't take a lot to see that track cars have very little suspension travel. Put one on the road and suspension WILL fail (it's not what it's designed for) If you want more details then ask AMT. M.
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#21 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 57
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Just let me clear something up. The race frame is not designed for the road, simply because you will never get the suspension to work properly i.e. the car has to be so low for the top suspension arm to work with the shock absorber that you would probably rip the exhaust off. We initially designed it for hill climbing and sprint use hence there are'nt any speed humps at these circuits. After all what would be the point of making two frames for the same purpose. The issue with the top arms on the race frame is that the coil-over is positioned to the side and not over the ball joint as on the road one so this creates a different load on the rear arm and this was an issue with Graham from Manchester, his arms had indeed bent at the rear but we have never this issue with anybody elsees race frame but Graham had used his on the road and the others hadnt but when Graham sent his arms back for us to view, we noticed that he had been running his rose joints right at the end of the rod which may have contributed to the higher bending load, When we made the new ones for him we noticed that he wanted them making a lot longer than the ones we supplied which tells me that for him to get the suspension to work on the road he had been running the top arms so far out to get the suspension to work properly that this may have been contributing to the bending of the rear arm and after sending the new arms out which were a lot longer we had a report that he was bending the rose joint so he was still running the suspension wrong as usually you have to saw a bit off the rear arm depending on what hubs you are using. PS enough said my fingers have gone numb. PS I try to help everybody out when they purchase my products.
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#22 |
Senior Member
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I'm probably not going to help matters any, but in defence of Andy -
Okay, so there might be an issue with the arms on the race frame, under certain circumstances.... Why is everyone worried??! Even mass manufacturers make parts for cars that fail under certain circumstances - ie when used for applications they werent intended for. You know big car companies, that SHOULD have more money to throw at research and development. I think the bottom line here is - things break on cars ![]() I mean any Mini with a big\powerful engine in it will be driven hard most of the time. What happens when you push anything to the limit, too much of the time. Bad stuff! Yeah, thats my technical term... Take any production car and hammer it around all the time. Stuff will break. By breaking I mean fudging up in general, not just snapping! Just my 2 pence worth (not really even worth that I suppose, as I have no engineering background whatsoever, however I think I've got some common sense and a fair bit of reasoning\understanding) Andy nevermind these people - at least AMT has a better record than the likes of Zcars and their bike engined, chain snapping, looney tins. We all know they don't work half the time.... Kevin
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#23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 4,464
Subframe: Other
CC: 1998
Make: Other
ECU: Trionic 5.5
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Out of the 100's of AMT frames made and sold across the world, has anyone in this community that WE know had a problem with their road AMT frame?? No... I didn't think so. :roll:
People are always too eager to slate a good product, especially competitors in the hope that they can take some business. M.
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#24 |
Senior Member
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Only problem is if I was going to go the Vauxhall route, I would have wanted the AMT race frame.
![]() However I don't like the idea of riipping my exhaust apart cos it's too low. Nor do I like the idea of having to trailer my Mini to oocasional track days ![]() Oh well, back to the "piddly" front mounted, FWD, R1 engined plan then... I hate when this happens on this forum. The rumours or the exagerated truth spreads about certain occurances to do with frames\kits. We should all be ashamed of ourselves ![]() Kevin
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#25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Arlesey, Beds
Posts: 974
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It sounds like you will mainly be using it on the road, so why don't you just get their road frame? The biggest difference is the suspension set up, and whatever frame you get, you will not be configuring the suspension for race only if you are going to use it on the road.
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Given up! Trying to sell it now!! |
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#26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 4,464
Subframe: Other
CC: 1998
Make: Other
ECU: Trionic 5.5
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#27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Arlesey, Beds
Posts: 974
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() You feeling alright, Maz?!? ![]()
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Given up! Trying to sell it now!! |
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#28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Midlands
Posts: 4,464
Subframe: Other
CC: 1998
Make: Other
ECU: Trionic 5.5
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:P
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#29 |
Senior Member
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Dunno...
You do have a point Chad. It's a tough choice here... I've sort of gone off the VTEC just due to the sheer cost of the engines and the cost of squeezing more hp's outta those crazy engines. Also the complicated ecu malarky - unless you could get a megasquirt to run it all, or cant use carbs, I'm not intersted! ![]() Also, it looks like Richspec had a hard time cramming his XE into that clubman fronted Mini. Reason for the race frame was I wanted a low Mini, but I never actually knew the race frame would make it that low! As far as I can tell the R1 engine transplant might just be that bit easier. Just the initial costs of a whole engine and the special gearbox to worry about.... hey if I get bored of that I can always move onto a "real" engine cant I? Not much a student with a mortgage can do (I live in Scotland, houses are cheap). Kevin
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#30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Reading
Posts: 390
Subframe: AMT
Make: Other
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if Andy has sold at least a hundred frames thats a grand each mmmm ,,,,fu me Andy got any jobs going ?
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