Maz V's Rob - Cr*p

[Rob Hall]

No one says sh1t about your products, so do the same for others.

Remember, you are a competitor and anything you say may start arguments, so you should keep your comments about other people’s products to yourself.

You’re old enough to know not to make post like that! It certainly doesn't appear very professional

This is the only forum that I know of where a competitor like your self ever makes comments on other people’s products. Why?

You should stick to answering questions related to your own product (one I hope you know something about!) this will reduce the arguments.


Very harsh i think Maz, seemed like a fair enough question to me, which it appears mattcave agrees !!
I might be a competitor but im also a 16v mini owner and have been for longer than anyone else, so have a point of view from both sides of the line, i can appreciate that sometimes my opinion may be interpreted wrongly because of that.
I would also say that there are quite a few comments on our products on this forum.
As such a loyal supporter of amt products just an answer to what i had said im sure wouldnt have provoked anything rather than the response you have given.
After your previous comments that im 'always' making digs at other company products , ive looked at all my posts and just cant see it Maz :?


Rob

[mininut]

Here are a few examples you may have missed, AMT is not your only victim :roll:

Not sure if relevent but interesting anyway.

Just done a back to back test of a properly set up Allspeed mini and AMT mini at a 3 mile test track which includes twists and turns a 0.25 mile straight and a hair pin. both engines supposed to be standard on 45's both with LSD's the Allspeed mini a Tran X diff unsure what sort the AMT had. Both with radius arms on the rear,and a dry track.
Both minis were driven by an independant 'good' driver and an independant person on the stop watch.
Of 3 runs.
run 1 allspeed mini 3 secs quicker
run 2 allspeed mini 5 secs quicker
run 3 allspeed mini 9 secs quicker!!

Certainly gave me no doubt that the progressive rate mini rubber donut we use is still a very effective spring.

What the hell is that cr4p about?

of course matt,

it was on this thread http://p211.ezboard.com/fminiclassicgeneralqueries.showMessage?topicID=194 08.topic

i was enquiring about using metro hubs and asked if instead of lengthening the bottom arms to counter the postive camber i could adjust the top arms in.

someone asked and i put a picture of my frame to demonstrate.

a member replied sayng re the toparms, "under heavy braking and cornering, they have been known to bend and even fail (read snap)

no doubt ATM will spin it that they've been tried and tested blah blah blah, but that's the word when you talk to anyone in the mini 16v rally community (say, allspeed engineering)"

he did not back that up with any substantiating cases or evidence.

i replied i had not heard of any cases in three years of owning an AMT frame.

my post here was to clarify and /or discuss people's opinion/experiences of the arms.

James

Making comments like this is liable.


Wow James



bolts into rear subframe points as per original need to cut out boot floor and its 4 inches wider so no need for spacers etc...


Now this i cant wait to see. I assume by cutting the boot floor away you loose the standard rear subframe mnt points, so the whole diff carrier and suspension frame is hold into the mini via 4 off 8mm dia bolts.
Again i assume by using the standard mnt points you intend to keep the shell as near standard as possible so wonder with a front engined rwd project where the prop shaft/gearbox/ engine/exhaust/manifold/pedal box etc fits without considerable reengineering of the front bulkhead and floor.
If youve managed to do all this with boltin sframes and the back end be strong enough with a 4x 8mm bolt in subframe i think i better check our sums again for our front engined rwd project, somebodies missed something. Apart from myself 2 other structural engineeers have checked our calcs!!!!!! and the end result is a bit more complex than a bolt in subframe.

Rob



Ridiculing others is not very professional Rob :idea:

Apart from myself 2 other structural engineeers have checked our calcs!!!!!!
And your a qualified structural engineer? How exactly? And what software do you use?


Do you want more examples? Or are you going to start being more professional about this?

[MattG]

What the hell is that cr4p about?

jiminwatford wrote:
of course matt,

it was on this thread http://p211.ezboard.com/fminiclassicgeneralqueries.showMessage?topicID=194 08.topic

i was enquiring about using metro hubs and asked if instead of lengthening the bottom arms to counter the postive camber i could adjust the top arms in.

someone asked and i put a picture of my frame to demonstrate.

a member replied sayng re the toparms, "under heavy braking and cornering, they have been known to bend and even fail (read snap)

no doubt ATM will spin it that they've been tried and tested blah blah blah, but that's the word when you talk to anyone in the mini 16v rally community (say, allspeed engineering)"

he did not back that up with any substantiating cases or evidence.

i replied i had not heard of any cases in three years of owning an AMT frame.

my post here was to clarify and /or discuss people's opinion/experiences of the arms.

James

Not a clue what thats about ??????

Cant see how the back to back tests a dig at amt!!!!!

The front engined rwd comments certainly arnt a dig at James, quite the opposite, i was genuinely interested in how they done it when i certainly couldnt.

Is a degree in Mechanical Engineering sufficient Maz?????????

The software we use is none of your business Maz..

Rob

Why the f*ck does every one want to argue all the time and slag off companys and people. Why dont we just remember what this forum is about. The Cars and having as much fun as possible. Being young and looking some of your posts it makes me laugh that grown men are slagging each other off. Its about time some of you grow up or ship out else where. Im sure which ever company you go for they are just as good as each other with them all having there good and bad points. But this doesnt matter. At the end of the day is not a competition. Its about having fun and p*ssing al those scubby and nova drivers off when we leave them in our dust. Keep it real

DEAVOUK

[PaulC]

Just did a quick search (great function that!) and found this:-



Hi, When i bought my frame from AMT (around 5 months ago) it was around £1200 which included everything such as driveshafts, coilover mounts, top/bottom suspension arms, tie bars all rose jointed. also comes with all nuts n blots needed and andy seems a real nice bloke! Hope this is of help.

Cheers
Matt

(Not Matt G)

http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2040&highlight=amt+kit


Thats probably where Rob got the idea that the AMT frame comes with everything :roll:

Paul C

[B20GT]

So let me get this straigt, we can all applaude/ examine/ slate all the 16v mini kit companies work because it is OUR OWN opinion, But Rob CANT put forth his opinion.

his comment on the cone setup is fair play IMHO, He must also regard AMT as his most closest competition or He'd have tested his car against anothers?

with regards to the RSR car, I thought the EXACT same as Rob! Ive seen several RWD minis, my fav " The alfa turbo" all these cars had SERIOUS shell/ mechanical modifications to accomodate. So how does RSR achive a bolt on RWD conversion, have they come back and PROVEN us wrong??????? NOPE!

As for Rob's credentials as a engineer, I've seen his work, I have no doubts as to his abilities as an engineer. He is also right not to disclose his software etc as he has pioneered to produce his work, which susiquently has been copied many a time.

I'm not sticking up for Rob here however, due to the fact that I also SOMTIMES find his comments a bit closer to the bone than others, I don't know if this is due to his experience or if he beleives no one can better his work, I'm sure the latter is not even a thought in his mind, but he does come across like that sometimes IMHO!

As for MAZ, you also seem to have a wealth of knowledge in the vauxhall conversion, and are a valuable source of info for almost all other budding vauxhall convertors, but you can be very arrogant towards others work, points of view etc, you dont get the "grumpy old bugger" tag for nothing IMHO

also, andy at AMT would be aswell posting like rob to save you taking the stick, you seem that tightly linked to AMT you could almost be regarded as a go between, between AMT and anyone with a AMT question on this site IMHO


I feel my views on this argument are impartial as I dont give a rats ass towards the vaux conversions, but when I do entre into your section of the site (To see if you boys have an idea worth adapting :wink: :lol: ) I find a lot of unrest amongst the vaux boys my own observation!!!!

Regards Scott G

[mattcave]

I find all this quite fascinating actually. I actually run a Mini web site (and its a fair bit busier than this one) and we don't get a lot less bickering than there seems to be on here. I don't really know what the cause or solution is. If the site policy is that traders are allowed to advertise/explain/pimp their products (and on this site I think its important that they are) then you're always going to get some disagreement, it's a fact of life. I think MattG needs to be clear about what is and isn't acceptable, and he shouldn't hesitate to split threads or lock them if they get petty and childish. And that's exactly what he does, so fair play!

I've done a head to head comparison of the two frames recently as I was in the market for one, and I think the fact of the matter is that both AMT have Allspeed have a good, well-designed, proven product. I haven't heard of one person who's got either product who's unhappy with it. How often does THAT happen?

The difference between Maz and Rob is that Maz is an individual with an opinion that he's not afraid to share. Rob is a 16V Mini owner but also a vendor of conversion kits etc. That means comments that might be appropriate to a web site user like Maz don't sound too clever coming from a businessman like Rob. That's how I see it anyway, but I'm just one punter amongst many.

At the end of the day I get LOADS of useful information from this site, and quite a few giggles too, so I'm getting value for money either way.

[darrell cripps]

I love all this s**t if i have had a bad day at work i know i can go on this site and find something funny

I think maz should take his nob out of andys mouth :!: then he might be able to stick up for him self :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: save maz doing it for him :roll:

[mikeb]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
lmfao at darrel cripps

[B20GT]

:lol: No guessin what side of the vauxhall playground your from D :lol:

i know someone who can prepare mini's worse than a breakers yard crushing machine, the standard being pathetic, its none mentioned here, but i'm not gonna spread bad news.
sean.

[MarkLD]

I thought Rob asked a valid question which would be useful for all people that buy an AMT frame, no need for arguements :|

[mini_kris]

well i think the lot of you that are arguing are all aload of big girls :!: :!: :!: there is no reason rob why you should slag off andy! or any ones products, you should just be trying tomake your own better, people can work out for them selves which kit or product is better with out you trying to sway peoples views.

are we all not here for the same reason, 16v mini's, infact mini's just in general?

[Rob Hall]

mini-kris says
there is no reason rob why you should slag off andy!

I totally agree with you, so in your opinion do you feel i have 'slagged Andy off' .

Rob

[mini_kris]

maybe i worded that wrong, i feel in my opinon that you have slagged off andy's products

[jamob]

To be honest i think what rob asked was a fair question and had i asked the very same question there would not be all the controversy. I feel that this forum should be free to traders as well as us building the things. After all, in general, they have greater knowlege than ourselfs and we would do well listening to their advise. I feel that rob has very right to ask the questions, as does andy or indeed geoff. This forum is designed to give the best information as it can. If by chance this means that there is competition between traders than this is only a good thing as products increase in quality and decrease in price! competition is a good thing!(look at your local supermarket!)
As long as this competition is kept fiendly then ok! if it can't then im sure Matt G will step in.

Just my thoughts

Jamo