k-series rear subframe.

has anyone ever fittied a k-series rear subframe????? did you remove the hydrogas brackets??? did you use the existing mounting brackets or bolt straight through the subframe??? do you need ti fit the ARB and how did you fit the coil-overs????
any info plz throw it this way!!!!
thanks.

[evolotion]

methinks everyone on here either has use dspacers (before or after teh drum) on mini frames ro went for beam axles.

beam axle???what type???

[evolotion]

wel the only example i can think off is rob halls. pics on the galery somewhere. (the gulf colored mini)

[evolotion]

you could go the R5Gtt axle route too. but its alot of hastle considering so many people use the mini frame and it works.

[ChadH]

So what would be the options in order to fit 15inch wheels (I'm not even 100% sure what the limitation is)? Only reason I ask is because Mivic took the R5GT turbo route and I think he has 15" wheels, doesn't he?

[Geehawk]

The limitation for 15" AFAIK is the radius arm pivot bracketry. Now I know that metro people fit 15" with a bit of modding in this area, so perhaps maetro arms might help. Other than that its go for something completely different like Mivics setup

[evolotion]

FWIW the saxo/106/AX rear axle is held on with only 4 bolts, and is based on torsion bars as opposed to springs, so it is dimensionally very similar to the mini setup. the saxoVT* and 106GTi have rear disks too. and fitting 21" rims or bigger isnt a problem..

now thats interesting, never thought of that, i've been having trouble with the antiquated rear disc brakes and semi rear trailing arms for a while on my vtec.
a metro front frame modded to lower the profile is a good idea, you get good brakes and plenty of performance options, i built a trike with a metro frame you can use an industrial cable operated brake caliper with the metro discs, works well with the old mini brake levers that have 2 cables and adjusters.
let us know kif you go this route.
sean.

[ChadH]

Well, the back of the car is going to be saved for last. Maybe once I've finished the front, I'll be more comfortable doing something without a set of instructions :lol: At the moment, I'm only reasonably comfortable doing stuff that loads of other people have done so that I can ask questions :D

[BassAddict]

I know that feeling Chad - thats how I started off, but having bought so many wrong things and being ripped off I'm gradually tackling more and more things myself !
Be interesting to see if anyone else, other than mivic, comes up with an alternative to spacers . I'd wondered myself what the rover 100 series rear subby is like as I've never seen one. Interesting about the saxo/106/ax setup though - might have to look into these!! :)
Rich

[evolotion]

damn, im sure i posted a reply to this...

anyways have a look at the saxo VTS/VTR 106GTi rear axle, its held on with only 4 bolts, can handle silly big rims(21"+) and has disks. if you want to experiment on teh cheap the rear axle from any AX/saxo/106 will do as there interghangable, allthough the disk'd axles are slightly wider!

they use torsion bars as opposed to springs so are very compact and would require minimal modification to a mini floorpan IMHO.

[BassAddict]

I'll have to ask a mate about it who's worked for both citroen and peageot service centres :)
Rich

[Geehawk]

As an alternative, MarkLD built his own rear frame I believe, using Metro radius arms, to match his metro stuff up front.

[ChadH]

damn, im sure i posted a reply to this....

You did - about seven posts up :lol:

Excellent info though - twice!!

[Geehawk]

Didn't think it was quite as good the second time myself :lol: :P :wink:

i can just about remember reading somewere that somebody had used the metro rear arm on a mini subframe. in this case then how was it changed to fit???? or does it fit straight in????

[evolotion]

dammit, my browsers been anoying recently and only showing "old" versions of threads. must flush the cache!

[ChadH]

dammit, my browsers been anoying recently and only showing "old" versions of threads. must flush the cache!
If you're using IE, go to Tools->Internet Options, click on Settings for Temporary Internet Files, and tell it to check for an update every visit. If you're using anything else... pass! :lol:

the metro fame is very different to the mini, its a c shape rather than a square deign, however as usual i got the wrong idea, but maybe not a bad one, i was thinking about using the front frame from the metro on the rear of a mini, using seperate calipers for the handbrake, this enables us to use better suspension and disc brakes at the rear, and you have the same track as the front with adjustable arms (if you take the centre out of the rack and weld it to the back of the frame that is), one thing i dont know however is if the hubs on the metro will take the side load or whether that was a function of the metro's diff (like the lotus does).
sean.

[BassAddict]

I asked a few mates about the pug 106gti / saxo rear frames - nothing confirmed yet, but they reckon the pug 106gti with rear discs is rare as the preverbial rocking horse....
They also reckon it'll be quite a bit narrower than the saxo equivalent though, but I'm in the process of downloading some workshop manuals for them both (good old eMule !!) so once I find out some definate facts I'll let you all know !
Rich

[evolotion]

No take it form me (as i have played with every rear axle variation these cars have to offer) all the disk'd braked cars in this group i.e. 106GTi, saxo VTS and saxo VTR are identical!!! with regards to the rear axle. saxo's are very tail-happy hot hatches there are alot of them kicking about in scrappies, particularly VTR's due to being a chav favourite (hope noone on the SSC reads this)

all the drum braked variants are slightly narrower track. but only slightly. if you look at the back of a saxo westcoast with VTR wheels, and then look at a VTR you will see the difference(just).

the reason i mention this is that you could buy a back axle off an AX for £10. and offer it up to the floor, if you can sort the mounts then do so and buy a disk brake axle, if not you have only wasted £10. they are interchangeable. Iv personaly stuck a 106GTi rear axle, saxo wextcoast rear axle(drums, but 4-stud) and seen a saxo VTS rear axle put on an AX (identical to 106GTi) FWIW the saxo and 106 are based on an AX floorpan. all suspension components are interchangeable.

[BassAddict]

Dont suppose you know how the track compares to the mini - just to save me the remaining few 100MB of download ?!! :)
Rich

[evolotion]

edited my post^^^ .. no idea but could post on the ssc for you and ask someone to measure an axle form the face to face that the wheels butt up against?!

[evolotion]

:arrow: http://www.saxosportsclub.com/forum/posts.asp?forumid=4&threadid=206740 :?: :D

[Geehawk]

saxo's are very tail-happy hot hatches

This begs the question. Why would you want the rear suspension on the Mini????

[evolotion]

by tail happy i meen they have a nice lift off oversteer characteristic as standard, just like any well set up mini. Guess that came across like they swapped ends at the slightest hint of a corner. they dont.

the main benefit of the saxo setup is that you can run bigger wheels. as far as weight goes, from "feel" its very similar to a rear mini frame. and you get the pub points of rear disks.

someone asked for alternatives to the mini frame.....

[Geehawk]

Oh right. Tail happy did mean something a little nastier to me..

Cheers

[evolotion]

lol im jsut too used to modorn cars being all understeer...

[Geehawk]

Remember when I first got an MG Midget. Went round a corner at the same speed as I used to in the Mini. Now that was tail happy. Gotta love RWD though :D

[evolotion]

going slightly off topic here, but yeah! .. iv followed my we bro on the country lanes (him in his spitfire) I can go round any corner faster than him, but watching his back end swing wide does look rather nifty 8)

lift-off-oversteer doesnt have the same charm :cry:

[BassAddict]

Cheers mate - hope someone replies soon to the saxo question !!!! :)
rich

[Geehawk]

The following page has the stats of a Group N Saxo and puts the rear track at 1321mm.

http://freespace.virgin.net/shalco.com/saxo_n2.htm

If you can find the wheel width and offset used then you should be able to get the "axle" width face to face.

Graham

EDIT:

All I can find puts a Saxo VTS wheel at offset 15

If thats the case then the face to face dimension is 1291 ??

[evolotion]

i know saxo's are the same PCD as fords if that helps, jsut a different offset.

[vx220]

i'm sure i remember (from my early mini days) being told that you can fit metro radius arms to a mini, but you needed big arches to cover the wheels. this was pre-sportspack days, so maybe combined with the small offset wheels used would provide the right track-width?

or at least get closer? is it true the watsons rear spacers are 65mm each side? that can't be good for the wheel bearings!?

i threw away my old miniworld/mag collection (after much frustration with a well known mini supplier) but have access to some old miniworld/mags of a mates. i've trawled through the "Q&A" sections, can't see anything.

just a thought...

edited to add... any of you rover guys bought a complete donor metro? get your tape measures out, have a measure!!! :idea:

[1.8 droptop]

just a quick pointer i used a standard beam axle kit from huddersfield mini centre and fitted metrop rear arms toit by moving the inner brackets outwards by around an inch each side as the metro arms atre not as wide then due to the arms being longer to allow for bigger wheels i modifided the brakets so the beam sat flush against the mounting area on the rear of the floor pan, i also had to cut the ball socket of the arm for clearance and had to get to new stub axles machiened which are 90mm longer at the rear from the retaining circlip postion and the same diameter as the clip from that point on,then they have a m10 tread tapped into the end for mounting the coil over shock to them and hey presto you get the same width trake front and rear without the massive spacers.

also if you are useing a k serise front sub frame I would recomend the use of mgf wisbones or the lower ball joint if they are available on there own as they give you more camber and caster which gives the steering a more pleasing and secure feel at speed 8)

[evolotion]

^^ you really need to get some pics in the gallery. :)