Front End

[JoeT]

Hi all,

I'm going to get a flip front for my roundnose when it goes in for the conversion, Geoff at Watsons can do a fibreglass one or a metal one, which do you think will be best?

I would guess the metal would be strongest although maybe it'll flex quite a lot and ratttle while driving, compared to a fibreglass one which may be quiter and lighter, but what will the finish be like?

Anyone have any experience of flip fronts and materials who might want to shed some light on the situation?

Thanks

Joe

[PaulAmes]

Joe,

Dont get the Watsons fiberglass piece. This is a watsons front and just look at it! One side suck out by about 3 more inches!! There were many more problems 2 - small and larger bumps all over the place - the more I looked the more seemed to find wrong with it.

http://www.virtualminiracing.com/16vminiclub/gallery/albums/userpics/Not%20parallel%202.jpg

If I was you I would go for a steel front from wantsons - I got one (fiberglass) from ABS ahich is just about perfect and fits the car very well. I strengthend the front with steel fiberglassed to it (see my pics) The finish on the fiberglass is better than the steel ones - The extended steal will probably require some filler but end result of either will be very good.

[PaulC]

Paul Ames,

I have bought a watsons fiberglass front end back at the begining of december. Between me ordering it and recieving it i saw your pictures of it and thought oh Sh*t. I don't know what to do as i am coming close to fitting it and i have looked closely and see where the bulge is. Geoff did say he would take it back but its going to cost me £30 or so to send it back. You say you have bought another one, what is the qualtiy like? would i be better off ordering one of these or do i try and hack the one about that i have got a fiberglass it back together again.
Any advice would be grateful

thanks Paul C

[PaulAmes]

Paul,

The bulge was not the only problem with the front - it is genrally just a bad mould. It doesnt fit, and the more I looked at it the more I could see small imperfections in it and a couple of larger ones.

SEND IT BACK cos its not worth it. Spend a bit more money and get either a steel one made up or like I did get one from ABS motorsport. This one is 6" longer (I think) but it is 10 times better than Geoffs. It fits well and is in two pieces (I have fiberglassed them together)

The only thing is that it is 6" longer which is a bit more than required - think it cost me about 200 altogether - not sure now!

I will be getting mine sprayed in the next month or so, so I can take some pics of it then and you can see it for yourself.

Paul

[PaulAmes]

Ok, the comments in my last post may be slighhtly exadurated. I have since have to remove my bonnet from my front end as it had some dips in it. As I had already fiberglassd this to another moulding I could not send it back so orderd another but when this cam it had another dip in it so this time I called them and they were very helpfull. They did another moulding and cheackid it all out for me and couldnt see a problem with it ao they are sending it out straight away - dont even have to send the old on back. Still better than Geoffs

[Geehawk]

I'd keep the two halves separate if I were you. Its soooo much easier to just lift up a bonnet, for minor stuff, than to have to remove a whole front end.

Wait until you have to do it at the side of a road in the rain with juggernaughts driving by. :wink:

[PaulAmes]

Umm- its an idea. but I dont know - much more strength when they are fiberglassed together. I see your point. I will have a think. :?

[PaulC]

It would still look cool in the rain if you ask me!! 8)

[PaulAmes]

yeh - have to agree - would still look cool in the rain, although might act like a sail in the wind! Always usefull If I run out of juce!

[Geehawk]

So having your fibreglass front ripped off and dragged under the wheels of a passing artic would look cool ???

Still I guess in the rain people wouldn't be able to see you cry :wink:

[PaulAmes]

Lol,

It will be fine - you could try and rip my front off but the steel frame that holds it together would have to fall apart first!! :wink: Anyways - i have never been sat on the side of the road in wind and rain with juggernaughts passing by and I have had some right dodgy cars!!

[PaulC]

You'd still look cool 8) . After all its a mini with a vtec in it! Plus it wouldn't break down coz its Japanese!! :lol: :lol:

Paul C

[PaulC]

Yeah thats not very cool!! Was It raining though? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Paul C

[Geehawk]

Yeah thats not very cool!! Was It raining though?

Wouldn't have mattered if it was. Darren has got a proper front :P :wink:

Seriously. Flip fronts may look cool, but are a pain in the arse, for a road car. Besides when its up, from the front nobody will be able to see the engine.

[PaulC]

Darren

You were not a popular person on that particular day then!!

Graham,

You speak as if you've had first hand experience of flip fronts?!

They are all valid points with regards to the one piece fronts but i've always wanted one!! i was planning on designing a way of making it flip forward and still be able to remove it completely from the car. We'll see what happens.

Paul C

Wouldn`t a better solution be to have a detachable front that`s bolted to the wings instead of welded? This would make it very easy to remove the whole front at displays or when swapping the clutch etc. with just loosening a few bolts..And then have a regular/removable bonnet which can easily be removed for small inspections or service. At least that`s what I`m gonna do..Just haven`t figured out clearly how to do this to get the tightest fit possible and best appearance..

[PaulAmes]

Well,

I can see the point of teh bonnets being good for convienince but come on - what are you talking about?!! With a flip front you can get at everything - its easy. Mine has two bonnet catches to hold it down - so its a simple pull from inside the car and the front will flip foward - what could be more simple. OK - its abitch to get fight - but its just COOL. and when you take it off compleatly it looks even cooler - sorry but I know what I want.

Plus another little thing I was thinking - I could have a more modern looking front end by having different fronts and simply swapping them over!! Lots of work but would be a laugh!!

Paul (looking cool) 8) 8) :lol:

I had a flipfront in glassfibre and were satisfied with that. The thing is, in Norway it is difficult to get a flip front approved by the authorities. At least it was..Some guys have pulled it through for the mini now.. So with regret I had to take my flip front off in order to get my car approved, and I had Watson weld on a new extended front for me in steel. But after my complete restoration I would like to have some sort of detachable front again, as it would make major engine jobs a lot easier! So in order to still get this approved, it seems like the best solution would be to make the front bolt-on, with "invisible" mounting points for the untrained eye. So all the bolts would need to be somewhat hidden. I have some ideas on how to achieve this..just have to realize it, and see if it works not only in theory, but also in real life.

Like you Paul, I have also had the thought of removable fronts, which enables you to change the total appearance of your mini in just matter of minutes. How about clubman at weekends, classic cooper in the weekdays, styling for shows, and ultra light carbon for trackdays! Would be very costly though :roll:

[Geehawk]

Paul (& Paul C :D ) it sounds as though you are sold on the idea of a flip front. If its what you want then fine.

But I think you will find it a pain in day to day situations. As you say everything is accessible, but only from the side of the car which is not the easiest way of working. And yes you can remove it, but you have to be able to put it somewhere while you are working (not easy in a country lane).

A far better solution is to have a removable front end for those times you want to have great access for major work (or look cool :roll: ), and just an opening bonnet for the other 99% of the time. i.e. make the whole front end flip if you want, including the bonnet for the times you want to look cool. Just make the bonnet removable separately for the times you would rather sort the problem than worry about how you look.

Graham

[MiniMike]

Chris, take a look at my website as I have done what you are suggesting, a removable steel front end with hidden bolts to keep it on. You cannot tell that the front end comes off and it is very solid. It requires removing the arches and the seam covers, 4 bolts and two screws to remove, but that all takes about 10-15 minutes. All the electrical on the front is wired through two trailer plugs, so they can just be unpluged to remove the front. The bottom of the front end sits on hood pins. Mike

[PaulC]

Also have a look on SAE's web site there is pictures of his removable steel front.

Paul C

Thanks for the tips! Liked MiniMikes solution best..Was something like that I had in mind..

But I noticed something on the SAE conversion..How can they use mini suspension on the K-series frame? Isn`t the watson frame based on K-series too?

[Geehawk]

SAE have made mods so that Mini stuff is hung off a K series frame. Given that the track is still wider (hence the rear spacers still being needed), the only benefit is that you could use existing hubs, brakes etc. Given the wider track, existing wheels are unlikely to be the correct offset.

My front end removes when required. 6 bolts, a couple of plugs for wiring, and a bonnet release cable nut. 10 minutes and its off.

So in other words, with the mods they do, you could actually use 10" wheels too if the mini-rotors are used then? Anybody who knows exactly what those mods are, and even better, have some pictures of it? Guess you`d have to mod the bottom arm frame monts somehow..I have an idea of how to do this..Could be quite simple..Just alter the metro bottom arms, and have two rose-jointed arms there instead which allows adjusting camber and castor..Complete mini-suspension wouldn`t be too difficult either..I presume the metro top arm could be directly swapped for the mini one without mods?

Watson. I have coil springs inside where the rubber cones are supposed to be. How so?

[PaulC]

Chris,

I've posted some pics of the SAE suspension in my gallery. Not the best of pics but one of them shows the custom lower arm. Hopefully you can work out what parts are mini. Ask me any questions and i will try my best to explain.

Paul C

Thanks for the info! Very useful! I will ask you if some questions should come to mind..