New to 16v minis :-)

[RabNo1]

ok i cant drive anything but a mini, i have my road goin mini that the mg engine died in, and ive got a 998 replacement for now...
What i had planned was rebuildin the mg but always loved the idea of a 16valver, now what im thinking is scrap the rebuild idea and fit a 16v suzuki seems the easiest convertion, cheapest (prolly work out cheaper than rebuilkdin the mg engine)and most insurance friendly (am only 19).

Now i want to keep as much mini as possible, suspention, hubs, etc.. and the suzuki seems the best way to go since any pics ive saw of a subframe to take a suzuki engine has been of a nearly standard mini frame..

Few questions ive got...
anyone any pics of a suzuki/mini frame thats been made from a mini frame?? or any descriptions of what mods need to be done to the mini subframe..
Driveshafts, how the hell do u work out how long they should be??
Any bulkhead mods needed?

Just want a better idea of the work involved...

cheers

[GTiMini]

Firstly a mini subframe modified to take a GTi engine needs some considerable cutting and refabricating. I would not recommend this unless you know what you are doing and are suitably qualified and experienced. I was talking to a guy on the weekend who had a home made frame collapse under heavy braking and almost cause an accident. There are a number of companies that do conversion kits so I'd seriously look at them first.

Drive shaft lengths vary according to your particular setup. Once my engine was bolted in the subframe on mounts I installed the control arms and hubs and made a dummy axel using a broom handle. I used empty inner and outer CV's and made it the correct length so it would sit mid way in both CV's at half suspension travel. That gave it room to move in and out as the suspension went up and down.

For my conversion no bulk head mods were necessary. I didn't even have to lengthen the front of the car.

Cheers

[RabNo1]

Thanx for the reply m8.
and thanx for the concern also :-)

I dont want to just go and buy a frame if i could make one myself, i realize there is still alot of work involved. I havent tryed anything quite like this before but i am pretty confident i could do it without any major problems (like frame falling to bits anyway :shock: ).
Ive done welding/fabrication lots before for other little things and am confident in that anyway, just the design im worried about. Also if i did do this or any convertion id have a good check over the car everytime i drove it (well for the first few months anyway, then itd be a weekly check LOL)
Im sure once u have the engine and subframe next to each other it will be very obvious what needs doing but im still at the planning stage and want as much info as possible...

What i really need is pictures of a modded frame so i can see the work involved to help me dicide weather i could do the modification myself..

I though as much to work out the driveshaft length, just incase LOL

Dont really have any other major worries just the subframe mods...

Any other advice is welcome..


cheers

[RabNo1]

just lookin at the pics on your gallery there (i think it was ures anyway)..
Is all that crammed into the standard mini engine bay.. As in solid mounted front and full inner wings???

I was plannin on cutting the inner wings out and flip fronting it, not just for the convertion but im sure itd make things a lot easier to fit.


cheers

[GTiMini]

Yep :wink:

My front is standard. Not extended and all fixed. The bottom of the inner wings are trimmed to clear and thats about it.

Local RTA doesn't like body mods for engine swaps unless the car has a full chassis. Minor cosmetic changes are okay but flip fronts are out unless you go to a heck of a lot of trouble and expense to prove them.

[RabNo1]

Thats a very nice piece of work m8..

I think since im in the uk it shouldnt be so much of a problem keeping the thing road legal.. Think at the most ill need to get an engineers report (might not even need think its only needed so certain insurance co will give u cover, other dont care but theyll obviously be the dear ones).
What coountry u from??

U dont happen to have any better pics of ure frame do u?

I just really want the best idea of whats involved so i dont run into any big surprises...

cheers

[Smurfy]

Hi. I am in the early stages of doing my own conversion. I would also be grateful if anyone has and pics of their subframe that I could see. I have found a few webstites but many do not have very good pics.


http://www.manchester-minis.cwc.net/links/hybrid_mini_sites.htm#Suzuki%20Hybrids:

There are several links to sites on there, if they are any help. Some are better than others.

[MattG]

look at gtimini gallery

Matt

[RabNo1]

Ive had a look, dosnt show whats been done to the subby very well.

Im on the hunt for a swift i need to get an engine so i can see for myself.
Going to be kinda impossible to plan without it..


cheers

[miniswift]

Hi mate,

I am middle of making subframe myself now.
You will need to make jig first.
Then you start to cut them up.

You can see pic here
http://minimikebc.tripod.com/
In here, you have home made subframe for Suzuki, honda and toyota..etc.
This mike is member here, too.
So you can ask him some question, too.
Also, GtiMini has impressive set up of Gtied car.

I just need to cutup more and start to weld peices in :D .

Good luck
Atchi

P.S. if you have industrial welding machine, it make your life sooo much easier. I tried with my clark and it just spatter all over the place.
When you use heavy duty industry one, you feel like you are a pro 8) .

[RabNo1]

thanx alot m8 i had actually just found that site from a link above...

Show alot better what has to be done to the frame, and give me a excellent idea of what the jig should look like LOL

Think ill get a jig mde and my subby onto it for a start :-)
Will proabably take me a little while to find a swift will be hard to find a gti and expecially one with a engine that not been thrashed within an inch of its life... I aslo hope its not a mk1 i find as ill find it hard to chop it the mk2 or 3 would be no probs though (ugly cars)..
As far as i can find out theres not much of a differance between all the gti engine apparently the l8r one has slightly more grunt but the l8r swifts were heavier (not that that will matter since we'll be loosing the car)...


cheers

[miniswift]

Best place to go for Swift is http://ukswift.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

You have to become a member to see for sale bit.

You said you don't like mk-1. Is that Gto or Mini?
For you info. Mk-1 Gti uses mechanical and Vacume advance Dizzy and ECU is only used for injection and engine management.
Also, Diff in mk-1 is cross pin and they are much stronger than mk-2 (single pin like Minis').
From mk-2 onwards, dizzy is controlled by ECU.
So, if you don't want your Gti engine to run without ECU, you need mk-1 setup.
My Mini will be running with R1 carb and mk-1 dizzy.
I don't think I should mix '60 wire with '90 tech.
In Ukswift, you should be able to find spare or repaire car for £250-300.
There was a guy selling 2 mk-1 for £270 may be 2 months ago.
If you can find one, go for mk-1.

Cheers
Atchi

[RabNo1]

thanx alot for the info m8,

Im going to be keeping the injection and was planning on getting a manual and making my own engine loom (and any aux dash lgihts, etc..)up and keeping the rest the standard mini stuff, as the mini electrics are soo simple and ill know the swift wiring (well what i keep of it)inside out once im done.. know of any probs ill come across doing this (i know some cars nowadays use the ecu for all sort of stuff)
Guess ill look for a mk1 though for the stronger diff.

This isnt going to be any kinda super fast mini just want a quick reliable daily driver for now nothing fancy LOL And this will hopefully be cheaper than rebuilding my nackered mg engine..
Im hoping to get this done for as little as possible and as far i can see theres not alot to spend money on LOL the swift (say 300) driveshaft (say 200) and eh thats all i can think of Anything im missing ??? what should i change on the engine (usual sevice, timing belt anything else?)

cheers for the help so far guys fell like im getting closet already...

[miniswift]

if you want to mod you car for cheap.
u should buy under drive pulley
I just bought one from USA and they are $65.5 inc p+p.
they won't make any more power than you got but release some from all of alternator, water pump and so on.
they are like lightened fly wheel.
rev up quicker, and it won't over work all of pump and so on.

Also, when you buy swift, you can sell most of staff back in forum.
I bought my complete engine stuff from forum for £150 and sold ECU, wiring, TPS and so on. So, it cost me only £50 for the unit I need.
If you buy car as a complete, you can make profit. :D .

Good luck
Atchi

[RabNo1]

Yeh i was planning on stripping the swift of anythin worth sellin then scrappin it (will get a little cash from that too)..

Saw a site (ssgti.com i think) that sells the pullies and a few other tuning bit, any idea if a superchip is worth having without any major mods (plannin on proabably the pully, possibly lighten the flywheel, enduction kit, and exhaust manifold)..

Oh and miniswift, i love all mini's (apart from those fat imposters) and i liked the mk1 suzuki too (shame about the mk2/3)...


cheers

[miniswift]

Hi,

My mate bought mk-1 Swift Gti from ebay for £120.
Full service history and all that.
If you need anything for engine and gearbox, let me know.
I will have 2 gearbox and engine spare soon.
Also, what size tyre are you thinking of using?
I will begoing for 10" to start off with.
It will be wrong ratio for the diff but you will have very fast accelerating machine with this engine :twisted: .
I sopke with engine tuning guy and he said that, with twin cam, you can mix and much cam shaft.
Like inlet is rally and race then exhaust is fast road.
He said, by doing this you will have best of both world.
I might do that!

[RabNo1]

cheers m8 ill keep u in mind...

Im going to be running 12"'s coz i dont really have the cash far a s brake setup or even a 4 pot setup to fit under 10"'s... Im not really bothered about top speed just hope i can sit around 70-80 without revin the nuts out the engine, anyone got an idea of the revs at 70 in 5th????

cheers

[GTiMini]

With standard GTi ratios and 175X50X13" wheels at 70mph you will be doing about 4200rpm in 5th.

[RabNo1]

Well ill be runing 165x60x12" so my tyre/wheel rolling circumference should be roughly the same..

now gear linkage ? how did u guys sort it out? was it a case of mod the mini to fit the swift linkage or mod the linkage to fit the mini? or bit of both ?? Again this is somethin im sure will all come clear onvce ive actully had a look at a swift atleast..


cheers

[GTiMini]

Linkages are not so hard. The selector on the box is in a handy location and you can just install the GTi linkages and shifter. You will have to shorten the rods to suit but thats just a cut and weld.

Alternatively you can do what I did on my last project and bring the linkage up through the selector hole where the old pudding stirrer goes and make up your own mounts. This way the tunnel is reserved for the exhaust system and you can put as big a pipe in there as you want. :D

[RabNo1]

Cheers m8

I saw the pics on your gallery, only thing is my mini is a l8r model with a rod change gear linkage, so mine doesnt have the pudding stick hole but im sure i could make one if that seems the easier option..


cheers

[RabNo1]

Just thought of something else, how did u sort out the fuel supply?? I know ill need to weld in bigger outlet to my tank and weld in a return, but what size and what about the pump??Think it would be possible to fit the suzuki pump into the mini tank ??


cheers

[GTiMini]

I used the regular mini fuel line as the return line to the tank and used the metal GTi fuel line as the main line. If its big enough for the GTi its big enough for the mini. I also considered using a hydro line for my main line as it was plenty big and the right shape already.

I made a new pickup for the tank out of hydro line and welded it in. The original fuel outlet was used as the return. Make sure you remove the little filter on the end of the original pickup inside the tank.

For a fuel pump I used a Bosch 450Hp inline pump and mounted it on the subframe. The fuel must be prefiltered so I just used a small inline filter before the pump.

We don't have the luxury of having access to the EFI 35 litre tanks like you get in the UK. If we did I would have used one of those as it would have all the right fittings, electrics, pump etc. For a stock GTi engine the efi mini pump would probably even be up to the job.

Cheers

[RabNo1]

I have been told the injection mini pump wont be upto the job, guess ill need to find out the spec of the mini and the swift pumps and compare them coz i know that would proabably be the easiest option (altough not the cheapest)..

cheers

any chance we'll be seeing some suzuki kits or even just the subframes available GTiMini ? i'd also like to shoehorn my mk3 gti engine and components into an old mini shell, but i may be waiting until i can get a full composite shell from minimania
ideally it would be great if it was possible to use the front hubs/brakes from the suzuki as well, since using additional suzuki parts helps further cut costs and mini bits are rare and price (esp. the bigger disk brakes).
any reason for not cutting a whole in the inner wing and running your intake piping in there, it would give you a clean cold air source and free up some space.
fortuneatly for me, the suzuki engine/tranny orientation leaves some extra room for the steering and brakes (master cylinder) with the lhd configuration.
just wondering if that's one of the reasons people have griped about the alternator being a bad fit.