Roll Cage

Is it essential to fit a roll cage and harness when you have a vtec fitted. I am looking into having one done but would like to keep the mini looking as standard as possible.

Thanks

[JoeT]

No you definately don't have to, but I wouldn't trust myself without one! :wink:

[BassAddict]

I dont think everyone here with a vtec has a roll cage - a lot of people like to keep the car looking as 'stealth' as poss !! I'm with Joe though - I wouldn't trust myself without it - I'm far too used to newer cars with better brakes (and less power!) !!!
Rich

[Spag]

As well as meking the passenger compartment safer, the cage should reduce the amount of damage to the shell if you do have a minor prang, so repairs can be reduced.

Also, a well fitted cage will make the shell stiffer - especially if tied in at the top, not just bolted to the floor, so should improve the handling.

It can make access to the rear hard (but who has/uses back seats!), and door bars if located for best protection will foul the window winders.

My Safety Devices 6 point cage was 35kg, if that helps your decision :-)

[PaulAmes]

I was in the same position as you and didnt want one. Thought it would be sensible to get just the rear one but after thinking how safe todays cars are and that I will be using it every day made me think twice - especially after taking a ride in DarrenW (without) and Colins (with). I felt just that little bit safer knowing that there was a cage around me in Colins but when in DarrenW's (no offence to Darren at all) there was huge performance within this little car designed 45 years ago. If crashed the mini could possible be the worst car to crash in ever! I had to have one - it just makes sense. Unless you are going to drive like a granny in your Vtec then I would.

Paul

do you think the cage would stop the engine landing in your lap? Or is it more for if you roll tyhe car or have side impacts? THing is with minis is they are so dangerous that you dont need to be vtec'ing it at 100 mph - my a-series would still be a death trap at about 10 mph!!

[PaulAmes]

Yes - i have often wonderd this Darren - I wouldnt have thought that the roll cage wouldn't offer that much front on protection unless it was the full one ie everything you can get not just front and rears. Lets face it guys if we have a head on in one of our cars then we are f****d - engine will be in our laps. This is the MAJOUR downside to the whole mini thing as far as I am concerned. At least with a cage you are safe(er) from side impacts and rolling the bloody thing which by the way I have done before in a mini :oops:

[MarkLD]

My car has the safety devices multipoint cage so it has the forward bars mounting to the front cross member. I have also double skinned the bulkhead for extra strength and created a new low level box section to support the back legs of the frame. (box sections have been filled with foam for noise reduction) I have also moved my seating position back by 100mm which should also help. I think a rollcage is essential for a hybrid mini
My brothers mini had a head on crash with an Opel kadett not long after it was rebuilt, it bent the roof on the Opel the mini is still going strong after the toe-board was bashed flat. I think the mini has a very bad crash reputation due to people driving round in rusty cars.

[Spag]

A standard 6 point cage won't stop the engine heading for the driver, but it is easy to fit a couple of door bars between the front legs level with the top and bottom dash rail.

[VTEC]

Putting the seat further back also helps the problem of the engine coming back into the car.... at least your legs will have somewhere to go...

[kb58]

There's something else...

Consider taking a 3-ft piece of roll-cage tubing and swinging it hard at your buddy's head. That's essentially what's going to happen in a wreck. Roll-cages work great in a *race* car, where you're wearing a helmet. At least put in the SFI-rated padding (NOT the soft useless crap most people sell.)

About the engine intruding, you can probably put a cross beam in at "engine level" to prevent it, at least partially.

[Spag]

Especialy if it was your buddy that crashed the car ;-)

Seriously though, impacting your head on the dash rail or screen pillar is not going to be particularly healthy either is it. Or worse still, in a std car with normal seat belts the seat belt bolt on the B pillar is designed to aim straight at your temple!!!

Yes the cage is a couple of inches closer to the driver than the shell i s 'normally', but it doesn't take a huge impact to move bits of the shell in 2 inches.

Would you trust a Mini door on it's own in a typical side impact at a junction, or would you prefer a door bar (or 2) as well ?

Agreed, good quality padding is essential on the cage.

A decent FIA approved seat and restraint system with suitable mounting plates to a rot free shell should really be considered as well, which if correctly installed should help maintain the distance between the driver and most of the car, unless things get really deformed.

Also don't load the interior with heavy items like speakers held in with small fixings, as like loose objects in the cabin they become excelent missiles on rapid deceleration.

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice as how you manage your risks.

[BassAddict]

Does anyone know if you can buy a roll-cage designed to fit an estate ?! I was given a roll cage for a saloon, and rear section doesn't reach to the rear arches. I'm thinking of extending it, but not sure how strong it would be in a crash - unless there's any particular technique to extending a metal frame - is it stronger to have an angled cut than just butting the two bars together ? Or is it best to sleeve it too ?
I also plan to add door bars as mine didn't havem 'em - only downside is I'll probably end up with half a ton of frame around me !!!
Any thoughts welcome !!
Rich

[PaulAmes]

I would just butt them up and sleeve em on the inside - it'll never fail in a crash. I'm not adding door bars - they get in my way and i think it is just a bit ott - got to reach a good comprimise and door bars dont come into it for me - just front and rear cage.

[Colin.ab]

My car has the Safety Devices FIA cage with removable diagonal bar and low down door bars that are fitted just over the sills, I ordered Black, and it arrived Red, so I had it powder coated Grey - this is why the stickers are missing.

I don’t have rear pockets or a rear seat floor in my car, I had no intention of carrying rear passengers, so keeping the floor and bins was a waste of valuable space, I removed the rear side bins as I couldn’t get the modern CTR seats to fit unless I wanted to drive with my knees up by my elbows.

In hindsight I wished Id added plates to the top of the frame before powder coating, to fix to the upper part of the cage to the car, but I doubt it would have gone in through the door frame as it was very tight to fit as it was.

An alternative is to fix plates via ‘U’ clamps that then bolt to the old B post seatbelt mounting, as the shell has a tendency to flex and then vibrate at high speed

There is a cage available for the Estate, I can’t remember who makes it, but they had one display in a car at MITP last year

C.ab

[Paul]

i had a chat with the lad who's doing my conversion about what i wanted, apparently the best way around fixxing in a roll cage is to box section the floor in a H shape, weld that in then bolt and weld the cage to that not the floor, to stop the engine coming into your lap, only thing i can think of is to brace the subframe through the bulk head to the cage so there is more area to discharge the force from the crash??


the condition of the car will also affect the damage after a crash, bodged up area's of sills, floors etc can be dangerous as the area's around the patch will still be weak. best to replace sections rather than fix little bits.

remember these little cars had 850's and 998's not 150 bhp + 1.6's.

[BassAddict]

How do the frames usually attach at the top - is it normally to the seat belt mounting, or else where ? Might aswell look into it while I'm chopping and welding it anyway !!!
Rich

[Paul]

i don't think you need to, it's not the top of the car that flexes, i didn't think the roll cage needed to be attached to the roof

[PaulAmes]

No - but it all helps

[Spag]

I just welded slabs of 3mm plate between the SD cage and the shell where I wanted extra fixings :-)

Would you trust a Mini door on it's own in a typical side impact at a junction, or would you prefer a door bar (or 2) as well ?

i wouldnt :) as you can see by this image its been hit in the side (where the drivers door closes and the front end of the rear panel) and this is whats happened to the inner bit of it::

http://home.graffiti.net/submini/Dscn1158new.jpg

so i need to straighen it out :(

[Spag]

No one seriously hurt I hope ?

Looks like you have a bit of tinworm to sort out while you are in there...

as far as i know. noone was hurt which is good :)

and yea. thats on my list of things to do :P