turbo k, progress

[evolotion]

just a wee post case anyones intersted. managed to make some progress with the mini over the last few days,

Got the manifold welded up, was a nightmare as my mig simply wasnt man enough, so heated the lot up wth a "mapp" torch as hot as i could get it then with the welder on full whack got decent penetration :lol: i think it is a cast iron manifold, cast steel flange :lol: and migged together, no doubt itll crack :lol:, but i hope it lasts a wee while atleast!

http://images18.fotki.com/v340/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05781-vi.jpg

also got most of the downpipe done, but ran outa gas! typical.

changed turbo's to a known good rover T25 as its a slightly smaller turbine and i know its a goodun :)

http://images18.fotki.com/v340/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05891-vi.jpg

Got myself a moderate mileage very early 1.4 lump, with the top hung wet liners and a late hi-port cylinder head to drop onto it, aswell as a vvc inlet and bigger alloy throttle body :)

Managed to open the head out by about 6cc :shock: takes me down to about 9.1:1 CR and with a few of these headsaver shims:

http://images18.fotki.com/v340/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05881-vi.jpg

should get down to 8.4ish. know its bodge-tastic but ill be a very happy camper if it works :lol: if not its only cost me the price of the gaskets and my time. and 9:1 is a decent CR.

only done the rough work on the head, stil gota balance the chambers and smooth it all off, and do a little porting, but its all comeing along nicely

http://images18.fotki.com/v340/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05861-vi.jpg


This is the engien befeor i cleaned it up: note the difference up top compared to the later "K"s, this one has support for the top of the liners.

http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05801-vi.jpg

and after cleaning (couldnt be bothered turning it over, but the pistons etc are all nice and shiney) and best of all, no cracks in the oil rail!



http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05841-vi.jpg

http://images18.fotki.com/v340/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05821-vi.jpg

[evolotion]

a later block, so you can see the rather large difference.

http://images18.fotki.com/v339/photos/5/512767/1853939/P000974-vi.jpg

[peskett]

Whats the depth of the manifold compared with the original? And whats going on with the cam cover in that picture?

[BassAddict]

Looks very interesting Evo - best do some work on the wifes so we can copmpare T25 installs ! Be interesting to see how they compare on power when done - low boost 1600cc 8v vaux vs 1400cc 16v k-series (not sure what sort of boost you're planning!) - CR will be pretty similar :)
Rich

[evolotion]

Whats the depth of the manifold compared with the original? And whats going on with the cam cover in that picture?

there isnt too much in it IIRC, just they both stick out at different places, next time i work on the car il take the manifold off and get a comparrison pic with the 2 side by side. fits under a clubby front.

rocker cover is white. basically my car was on an indoor stand at a car show, and it was a mess, so at 1am the nite before the show i hunted around my house for some paint, could only find white, and painted it :lol: think it was still wet when i set up on stand.

im planning on running as much boost as i can before my headsavers give way, i hole a piston, i can hear det, or the turbo starts pumping out hot air :lol: so no idea.. the injectors will flow enough for ~160 bhp and i know the clutch will cope with ~180 bhp(well the torque a 180bhp turbo motor will produce) so for now the upper limit is around there. theres no info on turbo'd "K"s so jsut gota push it and see what gives first :)

[peskett]

Hopefully going the same route when mines is running but with the 1.8 as a base As i've a brand new block and crank. Was thinking of mounting the turbo over the gbox.

[evolotion]

well it may interest you to know that the 1.8T pistons are avaliable again i believe , a set of those and the head opened out as i have done will get teh CR right down with no bodges :lol: i dcided on the 1.4 as the liners are much thicker, keeping my current 1.6 tucked away as a backup.

[peskett]

Hopefully gonna go for some forged and the scholer solid block conversion
Wanna get about 200bhp and alot of tourqe.

[noisymini]

8) Like it.

Nice to see something being done with a very reasonable budget in a "gotta be worth a try" kinda way.

I ran a standard A-series head on my turbo with 2 of the cheaper Payen BK450 gaskets to help lower compression. Was using it as a daily drive running 7psi for 6 months before putting a proper head on and had no probs at all with no signs of anything bad when i removed it so hopefully the shims should be ok on the K.

Am watching with interest!

[FatKev]

Am watching with interest!

Aren't we all! :D Good stuff evo - keep it up.

Kevin

[pengy666]

I take it you plan on using the injectors from the vvc manifold? I was under impression they wouldnt work as the are sequential or something and your ecu wont fire them like that? sorry if i'm wrong. :)

[evolotion]

useing my old injectors from the 1600 as there bigger than the ones i got with the VVC inlet. and useing the loom from my 1600 too as all the wirings in place. lookin gfor bigger injectors tho :)

anyways to knackered to type much, got alot done today as a mate came good with some spare collets :D stil alot to do but mocked up the manifolds as i couldnt help myself. the long block is now built :)


http://images18.fotki.com/v346/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05901-vi.jpg

[evolotion]

little progress. made up my downpipe, made up my oil feeds and return, threw the engine into the car, plumbed it in, filled with fluids and it started 1st time on the map for the 1600. :D yee hah!

let it run up to temp and there was no smoke from the turbo compressor outlet or the exhaus teven when revving the tits off itwith the wastegate tied shut. so im happy!

http://images19.fotki.com/v327/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_05911-vi.jpg

next job is to sort boost piping(have no idea where im even guna run the pipes! no room :( ) make a headt shield so the front end doesnt get burnt, put a little "bulge" in teh front to suit, make an actuator bracket, and make my home made chargecooler setup, plans in my head, pics to follow :)

also need to build up my new fron thubs / bearings / balljoints / shafts as all the bits are here bar 2 balljoints and then set the lot up :)

[BigAndy]

looking excellent - glad to hear its all running - my mate did a turbo conversion which ran ok on the standard 1400 ecu too. Could you move the alternator to the same position as noisymini? over the drivers side wheel? just a thought

[evolotion]

could do mate but its happy where it is :lol: (read: i cant be arsed)

thinking about going front mount similar to the lovely suzuki swift engined clubman
http://image-cache.boostcruising.com/database/members/files/minisown20051105144545pslfile1.jpg

only worry is the car gets parked around glasgow alot...

[Allan McD]

Its looking good.If you could just work all night two or three nights a week you could get it finnished soon :wink:
Crail was a laugh pity you couldnt make it.
I will race you some day.
Allan

[noisymini]

could do mate but its happy where it is :lol: (read: i cant be peached)
If there's room to leave it as it is then do exactly that as it's a fair bit of time and effort to mess about making the mount and getting it to line up right if you dont really need to.

only worry is the car gets parked around glasgow alot...
Mmm... Not exactly stealth is it :lol:

Would look 8) 8) 8) though!

[evolotion]

could do mate but its happy where it is :lol: (read: i cant be peached)
If there's room to leave it as it is then do exactly that as it's a fair bit of time and effort to mess about making the mount and getting it to line up right if you dont really need to.

only worry is the car gets parked around glasgow alot...
Mmm... Not exactly stealth is it :lol:

Would look 8) 8) 8) though!

well thats the thing, the cars suffered pretty minimal vandalism over the years, and i'v left it in some shady areas! They must think im a dealer or something :lol:

Allan, tottally. the problem im having right now is time, got the moey, but im workign late most nights in work, seign the misses occationally and generally tied down with other things over the weekends(not by the misses you pervs) :( still, itll get done!

glad you enjoyed crail, only heard bad news from the gents i knew who were heading up, 1 micra and 1 rover coupe, 2 snapped shafts between them!

[BassAddict]

I know where you're coming from with the intercooler - would quite like to just slap one out the front on the mrs c16se mini - but, living in manchester it'd be trashed, or stolen, in a matter of minutes ! :cry: Doesn't leave a lot of space behind the grill as-is !!
Rich

[evolotion]

i'v found a cooler that fits (jsut) if it was 10mm wider it woudlnt fit, if it was 5mm taller it wouldnt fit and if it was 5mm fatter it wouldnt fit . outlets are in a realy nice place too..
tis from a fiat coupe turbo. will get pics up soonish, been mega busy :(

also suspension and brakes are done, so the car drives, which is nice :lol: jsut the boost hoses to go :D

[Allan McD]

U got it sorted yet :?:
Allan

[evolotion]

yeah mate .. it al sorta fits (gota chop more out the front, but nevermind that....



we have boost

got up to 4psi and got some nice chatter for the wheel as it stalled.

still a few wee jobs to do , need to get some proper boost hose clips :oops: plumb in the wastegate and DV, and get some gaskets for either side of the turbo. little things but now 99.9% there :)

http://images16.fotki.com/v350/photos/5/512767/1853939/30092006025-vi.jpg

[evolotion]

maiden voyage today. after curing a missfire as i came on boost (thanks crap NGK pllugs) it put a massive grin on my face,

actuato pressure was 10psi, so thats what she ran at. pulled exceptionally well, on boost by 3krpm and boost didnt tail off all the way to 6k ish.(didnt go higher)

clutch doesnt slip :) (its one of the bigger R65U clutches)

not had time to properly play with ignition timing etc so im sure theres more power to be had, but very happy for now.

maxed out the standard injectors at 6250 RPM and 12.5:1 AFR, got bigger ones to fit though :)

turbo's kick ass.

[BassAddict]

Cooool 8) Top stuff Evolution - looking pretty crammed in that engine bay now !!! Can't wait till I finish getting all the bits to turbo the C16 mini !!!
Rich

[BigAndy]

Good job mate - will be interested to see how long this engine lasts at the 10 psi because i like the idea of supercharging mine eventually

[Allan McD]

Are you using megasquirt?
If so how do you map the fuel?
Allan

[evolotion]

Cooool 8) Top stuff Evolution - looking pretty crammed in that engine bay now !!! Can't wait till I finish getting all the bits to turbo the C16 mini !!!
Rich

boost is addictive :) .. its more crammed than it looks, you cant see the smal details like the modified diode pack on the alternator to clear the boost hose and the wee square hole i had to cut behind my numberplate(hidden by the plate) for the actuator to poke though. and thats after squashing half the actuator witha big hammer :lol: so it could sit tight to the compressor housing :)

Good job mate - will be interested to see how long this engine lasts at the 10 psi because i like the idea of supercharging mine eventually

boost wont be staying at 10psi for long, but so far so good!

Are you using megasquirt?
If so how do you map the fuel?
Allan

running megasquirt and the car has wideband hooked up at all times so fueling is real easy to set up, can do it manually in real time, or by going over datalogs, or useing tools such as megatunes "autotune", vexme, or the latest megalog and graph viewr. sorting ignition timing is a bit more involved though, and yet to see if the method i used when nat asp will work with the turbo. :?

[Allan McD]

So can you just run a rough map and the wideband setup fixes all :?:
Allan

[evolotion]

basically. megatune can come up with a decent "guess" at a map for your enigine. whcih i always make obscenely rich up top for safetys sake, then use the wideband to slowly lean i tout everywhere to the mixture you want :)

[RabNo1]

Glad to see you got it all sorted m8, think ive been inspired :lol: What sort of boost do you plan on running in the long term?

[evolotion]

no idea. jsut takign it a bit at a time. :)

[Allan McD]

I recommend around 30psi for a laugh :lol:
Try it you know you want to.
Allan

[BassAddict]

Can't quite see in the pics, did you plumb in the water cooling for the T25 or not bother - I believe some people do and some dont ?
Rich

[evolotion]

couldnt be arsed mate.. just left it :)

[BassAddict]

Fair do's - might just follow suit there as its just another hassle !!! :)

[noisymini]

So then.

Any news?

Anything let go or melted yet? :lol:

[evolotion]

So then.

Any news?

Anything let go or melted yet? :lol:

no news is good news, its awesome :lol: at the moment i am limited to a measly12psi, anything over and i get occational missfires, currently modifying megasquirt and my HT leads to accept a ford EDIS coil pack which will hopefully sort that out. tried all sorts of plugs and gap's from 0.5mm all the way to 1.2mm with varying success.

boost wise had it to 20psi, but got missfires above 4.something k rpm . but tis all holding together nicely :)

will have the car at crail this suday, so expect a wee report. cross your fingers for me i NEED into the 13's :lol:

EDIT should add iv been comuting in it every day since its been done, think iv driven my mundaneo once, so fair rackign up the miles already.

[pengy666]

but is it firking quick then!! loads more or just smiley quicker?? sounds silly but i reckon you know what i mean?

[evolotion]

its silly quick, easily the quickest FWD car iv ever been in, thing is iv been driving the mondy for a few months while i sorted the mini, so cant directly compare the two so could be an illusion. Hence why im so eager to get up to crail and get a proper comparison down.

but suffice to say im really happy with it! so long as its dry
:)

[Allan McD]

I might turn up I need to try my higher gearing.
Allan
Ps the weather looks ok for Crail on Sunday

[noisymini]

Nice one! 8)

Glad to hear its surviving especially after testing at 20psi! :shock:

Too much boost and advance is largely the reason for my first A-series turbo engine cracking a forged piston. That made me always very wary of overboosting which kinda took the fun out of engine tweeking and upping boost :(

Certainly be interested in your 1/4 times now and would be cool to know what power its producing.

[evolotion]

I might turn up I need to try my higher gearing.
Allan
Ps the weather looks ok for Crail on Sunday

cool :) be good to see the beastie :)

[evolotion]

few wee updates.

the rover R65U clutch spits its dummy at over 1 bar of boost sustained, will take it for a brief time. bear in mind thisis bigger than the normal R65 clutch

the rover coil is garbage with boost and only fit for the bin, dont waste your time with it.

the ford coil as fitted to the 16v zetec engines is the daddy, however if you dont ground both "sides" of the coils cores really well you will suffer ecu resets, and if you dont fit the big chunky suppressor(20uF, non electrolytic) between teh centre pin of the coil and earth you will get resets.

useing cableties as boost hose clamps doesnt work when bost is at 1 bar and sustained. :lol:

needles to say im very happy wit hthe car now, and the only limiting factor right now is the clutch :)

[Geehawk]

useing cableties as boost hose clamps doesnt work when bost is at 1 bar and sustained. :lol:


That has to be your quote of the build so far :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice work 8)

So when will you start kit production :wink:

[BigAndy]

I have a black diamond uprated clutch from a metro gti if thats any good to u? I guess it might not fit the R65U box.

[evolotion]

a kit? never :P but if i decide to re-make my manifold i'll prob make a jig and a small batch, but that wont be for a good bit yet :wink: well, itll be whenever this manifold cracks to bits. :lol:

it would fit mate, but it'd be smaller than the one im running, and chances are it woudlnt handle as much power. theres 3 upgrades that are known to work well with turbo and supercharged pug engiens that are a bolt on fit / require minimal machining, these are the helix setup, AP single plate, and AP double plate. from what i gather the AP single and double handle about the same power, wiht the double plate being easier on the pedal, both are expensive.

the helix looks to be the best compromise, metalic and organic plates are avaliable , and its just a bolt on plate and cover, and price is reasonable. but will look into it further when iv got some spare ££

[pengy666]

Man im gonna do it look what i got sitting at home!!

http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/turbo.jpg

thats a genuine mg zt-t manifol too, what you reckon??

few wee updates.

the rover R65U clutch spits its dummy at over 1 bar of boost sustained, will take it for a brief time. bear in mind thisis bigger than the normal R65 clutch



Is the r65u off a later k? I got a flywheel from one but aint sure wether or not I can use it, and if i'd need to change box? i got a boggo metro box i presume this is a r65? forgive my dumbness?

[evolotion]

R65U was only fitted to 1.6 k-series engiend cars.. however i believe if you have th flywheel, jsut buy a plate and cover and you can use it with any R65 'box.

im not guna say do it btw :P as mines not been on the road logn enough to say if its reliable or not :wink:

[chrisg]

i got an R65U box from the metro GTI? pretty sure its R65U anyway

[evolotion]

may well ahve been mate, was only the internet i grabed the 1.6 and R65U fact from. good to know if i break this one :lol:

[evolotion]

wee update with reggards reliability. the standard rover manifold gasket cant take the stick, its been slowly getting worse and worse and after a very enthusiastic drive to dumfries it finally gave in and completely blew out on 2 cylinders. (howeve rthis resulted in really cool big flames out the exhaust on over-run :lol: ) hunting for a suitable upgrade.

also broke the anti-torque engine mount, and after a severe overheating on the above journey i may also have impending HG failure (slight "steam cleaning" visible on one exhaust port) this was due to the air bleeding coolant hose that comes out the manifold popping off :( however up untill this the engine has coped with 1 bar and daily use without incident!

may pull the head off to make sure everythings ok, not decided if i can be bothered yet. if i do i'll be removeing 1 or both head saver shims as off-boost performance and fuel economy isnt the best.

[pengy666]

how much were the head savers?

[evolotion]

would need to dig out the invoice for an exact price but circa £10

[noisymini]

Can't beet a bit of destructive testing :lol:

Hope you get it all sorted 8)

[pengy666]

Since you got it running i been working on car to get it running and during work i been scrounging for bits to fit a turbo! today i managed to get a turbo with the right shape flange to marry up to manifold the fins are screwed on it but out of the three turbos i got i reckon i can make a good one?

It dont matter as i aint bought nothing!

It looks like the manifold flange on mine is warped??? bummer

Just a quicke can you get a pic of how you plumbed your oil feed to turbo? was it from the oil filter housing?

Also was the head work necessary? to be fair i'd rather not do that sort of work?

how can i identify the low port heads? think this been mentioned before sorry?

:kseries:

[evolotion]

see DVA powers website for head identification.

the head work is VERY necesary mate, unless you wana limit yourself to 4psi :lol: its the main way i lowered the compression ratio.

you could run a Std head and some shims, but doubt youd get the CR down very low.
tadaa

http://images18.fotki.com/v195/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_0568small-vi.jpg

[pengy666]

hmm i got a spare filter housing of a later k and it has two sender units so i took it of and used old one with one, i reckon i could use that for oil feed!
hmmm

[evolotion]

thats me done about 1500 miles now at 16psi, after "practicing" my launches this afternoon the clutch cant hold that boost now :( but its still holding sub 1 bar fine. so givena small factor of safety the std clutch caould probably be abused with 10psi all day long and not bat an eyelid with the compresion ratio im running.

[evolotion]

Just had the car on the rollers,

made 155 ft/lb@6018rpm
and 196bhp@6815rpm (176bhp ATW) runs done in 4th.

power was still climbing but the chap lifted off at 6857rpm according to the datalog.

There were a few standard cars on teh same day made std power figures, so happy with that!

according to the datalog MAP peaked at bang on 200kpa, so running exactly 1 bar of boost :) and the AFR's were dropping down to low 10's at above 6000RPM so given i know the engine can handle 20psi(hopefully more!) and i should find a few horses up top by leaning the mixture, theres plenty of room for improvement! :)

IAT were dropping up untill 6000rpm aswell where they rose a wee touch, so probably close to the point where the turbo jsut starts heating air rather than compressing it :lol: average temp in teh inlet was 32 Degrees C, ambient temp was 12.5

[Geehawk]

Only 196bhp you're not trying hard enough :lol: :lol:

Bet you were well pleased 8) 8) 8)

[evolotion]

over the moon! but at teh same time a bit gutted i couldnt run more boost cause of the clutch.

I expected to have about that much torque, but very supprised by the power, it just kept climbing! Holds true to how it feels on teh road though, it loves to rev.

[pengy666]

its a 1.4 aint it??

nice power there chappy!

[evolotion]

yip :) would love to experiment wiht the bigger bore lumps, but dont wana throw money at somehting i have a gut feeling will blow up by the end of my driveway :lol:

[Allan McD]

Briliant :shock:
Allan

[chrisg]

bugger the 1.8 vvc a turbo k's the way to go! cheaper road tax too, good thing i have 1 or 2 1.4 wet liner engines in my possession :wink:
well done that man! not got any wories about your drive sharfts? i would!

[noisymini]

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Didn't imagine it would be nearing the 200 mark.

Quite impressed with that!

[BassAddict]

Blimey - good result fella ! 8)

[BigAndy]

Well Done fella - Get a kit together and sell it to us all :D

[evolotion]

Turbo is dead. engine however, is still in fine fettle, spark plugs all look spot on.. im speculating the high boost and lack of a dump valve and the resultant compressor surge has sent it to an early grave, pain in the rear, but lesson learned. got a spare turbo to throw on it already but the weather is so bad here the garden is flooding and the drains are starting to back up! so no way im going out to work on the car :lol:

[noisymini]

:(

Bad luck dude. Impressed the engine still ok though.

You get your clutch slipping troubles sorted? Or it still not like too many emergency starts? :lol:

[evolotion]

nup, iv been holding off as i have a few plans in store for the car over winter and was guna do the clutch then... also im still paying my mum off for the xjs i jsut bought, so once thats out the way i can start spending on the mini again :lol:

I do have a source for uprated clutches now tho, and prices are very reasonable. but will wait untill i hav eone on my car before i go singing praises :)

[Allan McD]

The xjs still puzzles me the wife is asking where is it are you using it to pick up classy chicks?
Allan

[evolotion]

are you using it to pick up classy chicks?
Allan

nah, jsut my girlfriend :mrgreen: she prefers the mini, aparently its more comfy! there was no rational thought behind its purchase( how could i justify purchasing an old thirsty car for use as daily transport in this day and age) i jsut wanted one :) simple as that.

[BassAddict]

Hope the weather calms down a bit so you can get it fixed :cry:
Sure it'll be done in quick-time :)
Rich

[pengy666]

what a bummer m8 sorry to hear that you SMOKED it! lol

[Dazzler]

wow... just found this... 200 (or dam close) horses from the 1.4.. thats mega, when ever i talk K series to anybody i just get told how unreliable they are!

Well done chap!

[evolotion]

no point patting me on the back just yet, iv killed me second turbo already :lol: and this time i had a dump valve. suspecting lubrication/heat issues this time. When i get some spare time i'll be doing a few wee tests with this turbo before it finally kicks the bucket as i need to get to the bottom of this before i invest in a more "purpousefull" blower.

[pengy666]

why dont you try running the thermostat conversion so it runs cooler?

[evolotion]

coolant temp is fine mate, its the oil, wel i think, will be testing soon as i have soem free time, just in from work :lol:

[pengy666]

gonna need an oil cooler then!

Like you got bags of room right!!

[evolotion]

Bloody hell, cant help but notice the view count on a few threads in this section have rocketed! so if your a guest, welcome to the 16vminiclub :lol:

anyways, with the demise of the second turbo(which i'll get too in a bit) Minor rot in the floorpan, a burst radiator and questionable asthetics the car is off the road!

on the to-do list are : -

replace rot, bare metal and POR15 everything.

Make the car look pretty

fit VW COP setup froma 1.8 TT (yes, they fit the "k" :) )

Fit my lovely big trimmed(pulsar) T28

Fit an oil cooler for above!

The second turbo went the same way as the first, cooked bearing on the exhaust side, so with the water lines plummed in and an oil cooler with thermostat i should hopefully put that to bed. third time lucky and all that.
May increase the compression ratio from7:1 which it is justnow up to around 8:1 to try aid fuel economy and off boost performance, undecided about it though..

will also be adding some stregnthening to the frame and some extra mounts between teh frame and shell as i plan on properly abusing the car :)

And finally rewiring the entire car again to include a few little goodies, and hopefully make the car more confortable for daily use.

Anyways some pics :) note the new bumper and 2-piece front to hide the turbo :lol:

http://images24.fotki.com/v801/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0629-vi.jpg

http://images23.fotki.com/v804/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0630-vi.jpg

http://images24.fotki.com/v800/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0634-vi.jpg

http://images23.fotki.com/v804/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0641-vi.jpg

http://images23.fotki.com/v808/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0636-vi.jpg

http://images24.fotki.com/v800/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0638-vi.jpg

mmmmm tight :)
http://images24.fotki.com/v800/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0639-vi.jpg

[Woody]

What is a "VW COP" ?

[evolotion]

sorry, VolksWagen Coil On Plug, too used to hanging around they megasquirt forums :lol: its a signel ignition coil per cylinder, i have found the upper limit of the ford EDIS coil pack to be 20psi on my setup after that i get a missfire so hopeing these coils are powerfull enough. if these dont do the job i'll be looking at mitsubushi coils form an evo/galantVR4 as i know these are crazy powerfull, but they will be aquard to adapt to the k-series.

[Woody]

Cool , i want to megasquirt my K van (if it ever gets done)

[XEValver]

aren't COPs really expensive? also, dont forget that the 20v motor is found right across the VAG range, not just the TT. should be a piece of pie to track down the parts :D

keep up the good work! looking forward to seeing it done. are you changing the colour too? :P

[Swiftmini]

Iam interested in COPs aswell, i just haven't had anytime to read about it at the mo. So iam def interested in hearing your progress.

2 piece front looks good quality.

Kev

[evolotion]

aren't COPs really expensive? also, dont forget that the 20v motor is found right across the VAG range, not just the TT. should be a piece of pie to track down the parts :D

keep up the good work! looking forward to seeing it done. are you changing the colour too? :P

these COP's are £25 a pop brand new i bought one to see if it would fit the engine, then bought a full second hand set of 4 for £10

the reason i went for these units is 2 fold, first there dirt cheap, and second they have a built in ignitor, so no need for expensive and annoyingly fragile VB921's on the megasquirt. when my radiator burst i managed to stall the engine and burn a VB921, meening i had to drive home on 2 cylinders, with these coils that should never happen. so cheaper, more reliable, and easier to replace if/when they brake, all round winner methinks.

Already had them sparking on the bench but not on a running engine yet.

the coils are indeed used across a whole range of the 1.8 20V engines however there is approx 6or7 variations in the coils by part number and application ontop of that the early part numbered coils burn themselvs out quick (which is probably why there so cheap from VW!) so you gotta be carefull you get one of the later ones. the part number for the ones i got is 06B 905 115L however thats already been superceded the new part number is the same except the letterat the end is further on in the alphabet, cant remember what it is off the top of my head!

[picKup]

Have you thought about using the coils from the EU3 K series engine? That way you keeping it rover!

Mike

[evolotion]

thought about it, but i have already got 5 VW coils, and i know they can cope wiht lots of boost, the rover coils from the EU3 engines would be another gamble, besides coil-on-plug is cooler.

[evolotion]

well the rebuid is getting there and have started on the extra braceing for the front subby, progress has been uber-slow as it seems to only rain on the evenings and at the weekend. :lol:

anyhoo, after following this thread over on TM http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=10207

iv decided to give it a bash, as itll cost me £0. and hopefully save me £400 :)

http://images22.fotki.com/v810/photos/5/512767/1853939/IMG_0690-vi.jpg

origional clutch dismantled

took 2 apart to get 2 identical springs then start to stick it back together

http://images102.fotki.com/v395/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0693-vi.jpg

http://images23.fotki.com/v870/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0695-vi.jpg

still got to attach the face that rubs on teh friction plate, but need to source some small high tensile fasteners for this!
the next problem will be ajsuting the preload on the springs, obviously with 2 of em in there im now the width of 1 spring to crushed up, so may either make up some shim's to space the cover off the flywheel, or get one of the metal friction sirfaces machined. undecided yet :)

[evolotion]

little bit of progreess, sorted a few little holes here and there, and replaced the rear valance :) .. how happy with the floor!

http://images24.fotki.com/v767/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0696-vi.jpg


http://images23.fotki.com/v857/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0699-vi.jpg

only a little bit of welding around the door hinge/dash rail area and that should be me left with a nice solid shell, again :)

[Swiftmini]

aaaaiiiii that looks proper bo i tell thee!

How is progress with the COPs goin?

[evolotion]

its not :lol: been lacking motivation justnow due to the weather and super slow progress on the bodywork :( i have modified my wiring loom to acomidate the COP's and added flying leads to the COP's with computer IDE power cable connectors, as there cheaper and easier to get than genuine VW pigtails. jsut gotta modify the megasquirt to get rid of the vb921's and i should be good to go. once the body is back on 4 wheels and in paint i'll be super motivated, but right now im lackign that!

[Allan McD]

What is going on here its 6 weeks since told us any thing, Is it the rain thats holding things up :?:
I demand a progress report.
Allan

[evolotion]

Sorry allan, but yeah thats abou the size of it :( got a break in teh weather recently so the shell is now in paint, front end has all been mounted and trimmed to size (as has the bonet) and that is all now in paint too. have moulded the front end around my arches. got the front and rear wondows back in and thats where im at jsutnow :)



http://images23.fotki.com/v877/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0702-vi.jpg

http://images25.fotki.com/v886/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0708-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v892/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0705-vi.jpg

http://images24.fotki.com/v865/photos/5/512767/1800150/23062007129-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v894/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0710-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v909/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0711-vi.jpg

http://images25.fotki.com/v905/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0712-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v912/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0713-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v911/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0714-vi.jpg

[DarrenW]

Is that a Kat kit front spoiler? I have the whole kit upstairs in the loft, love the kit bought it when I was about 19 at first year at university!

Looking good 8)

[evolotion]

no idea mate, came promptly from the fine gents at ABS. all i wanted was the largest bumper i could get to cover the turbo :lol:

[Allan McD]

I think you will be doing the Show and shine comps at Crail insted of Draging :wink:
Allan

[evolotion]

I think your just winding me up cause deep down you know :kseries: :lol:

[ed4ran]

Phwoar!! Looking good :lol:
Whens it going to be running again!! :oops:

[ed4ran]

Also will you have the engine bits changed, and are you changing anything else to do with the engine, or is it going back how it came out?

[evolotion]

engine bits will be changed, the long block will remain untouched as i still havnt found the limit of it yet 8) throwing on the bigger turbo, COP setup and home-made clutch for when it goes back on the road, apart from that itll be unchanged till i break something :) MAY throw in a set of cam's but really need to do my homework on what would be suitable first :) stil lots of R&D to go thorugh, early days yet :)

[chrisg]

you ditched the door pops? good job with the paint btw! and at least now your arches wont make nasty grinding noises on full lock :lol: i realy need a rebuild...... and a handy unit to do it in

[evolotion]

yeah mate, door pop's are gone in favour of good old fashioned handles, have fitted central locking and lekky windows though. the door pop's were a nightmare in teh winter when the door froze to the door-seal :oops: And i really want to keep the car practical.

Paint was first time useing 2-pack, its awesome to paint with, much easier than celly. :) theres a few bits of overspray here and there but they should polich out. this time i also joined together 2 cheap 1.5hp compressors to give me one man enough to do the job proeprly :)

P.s. i really need to pull my finger out and get over to yours for that engine, sorry abou the wait, i havnt untill recently had a car capable of carrying an engine. if you still have it :lol:

[evolotion]

8)

http://images26.fotki.com/v941/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0716-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v937/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0717-vi.jpg

Pure tonnes of room here, may experiemnt with a tubular manifold :)

http://images26.fotki.com/v942/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0718-vi.jpg



http://images26.fotki.com/v933/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0719-vi.jpg

[JoBu]

Looks really smart 8) Huge difference!

[bodgeit]

Top job! didn't think i'd like that bumper but looks smart and plenty of room for the turbo and a decent sized intercooler. 8)

Matt

[MarcE30]

Looks great Evolution, Keep up the Turbo K progress!

[evolotion]

Thankyou gents :) Guna try get a few more hours in this evening once i have sorted a workign car for me mum :)

[Allan McD]

Its a we bit high at the rear :shock: but loking good 8)
Allan

[BassAddict]

Mini's looking very nice bud 8)

[evolotion]

Cheers gents :)

Lots of little ods and ends done over the last few days!

Headlights, bonet pins, pedal box, gear linkage and lever, turbo, downpipe, manifold, oil lines, intercooler, and some interior :) also had to modify the boost hoses alot as the new turbo has a totally different outlet setup. starting to come together fast! .. had a wee setback though, on drilling out one of the bleed nipples on my brakes i had to drill a little deeper to cut some fresh thread for the nipple to bite into, drilled to far and the calipers scrap :? so gotta buy a new pair! bit annoying but i had been promicing myself a ligher simpler pair of alloy calipers for a while :)

http://images26.fotki.com/v940/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0720-vi.jpg

here you can see the rubber mounts for the front part of the front end sticking out to the far left and right, these are to (hopefully) stop the fiberglass front crackign from road vibration etc.

http://images26.fotki.com/v934/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0721-vi.jpg

http://images26.fotki.com/v933/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0722-vi.jpg

[Swiftmini]

Looking awesome 8) won't be long now :D

[evolotion]

hopefuly, my misses is going bloody skatty casue i have spend every single weekend working on the mini for the last few months now :lol:

neways, new trigger wheel made out a new bottom pully and an old cam sprocket, hope it works :) old one had a colision with something solid (the frame befoe i "relieved " it) and bent a little then vibrated and freetted itself, and the lower cam pully to bits, had to replace the lot, crank was ok though, thankfully!

http://images26.fotki.com/v958/photos/5/512767/1800150/28072007147-vi.jpg

pics are crap as ther off my fone, couldnt be bothered charging my camera :)

Turbo stuff, all water lines done and the boost hoses all done, as well as a new actuator bracket fabricated :)

http://images25.fotki.com/v950/photos/5/512767/1800150/28072007148-vi.jpg

Top down view, showing pretty much everything in the final fit, had to mod the frame a little more to fit the rad in snug, intercooler is solid mounted to the engine

http://images27.fotki.com/v968/photos/5/512767/1800150/28072007150-vi.jpg

Wiring :P

http://images27.fotki.com/v966/photos/5/512767/1800150/28072007151-vi.jpg

Cutout

http://images26.fotki.com/v960/photos/5/512767/1800150/28072007152-vi.jpg

[evolotion]

oh deer, bit behind wiht this!

cars finished and on the road again done around 1000 miles so far some good and bad.

good points:

the MUCH bigger turbo spools up nice and progressive making it very easy to controll wheelspin with my right foot.

Im making (by the seat of my pants) as much power at .7bar as i was at 1 bar of boost

Economy is greatly improved, as is off boost torque.

at 1.2 bar on anything but an absolutely perfect road wiht warm tyres it will spin up in 4th. even in the dry. gettin gused to it now but when i first got the boost up that high i was shaking reall bad, due to fear or adrenalin i dont know, but i havnt plucked up the courage to turn the boost up more.

i have a magic head gasket. (see bad points)

no clutch slip atall.

before i had issues when traveling at 100+mph for a sustained time water temps would creap up, they dont any more! im assumign its the oil cooler but could simply be beter airflow to the radiator.

Bad points: (this could take a while)
I had a coil pack fail, one of the second hand coils failed. new one was £22 from VW off the shelf.

on the long drive home after the failure on only 3 cylinders i had a sump with some extra water in it and some oil in my water. didnt notice this however untill after a spirited drive to my work to fetch a new coil( i have a spare at home but wanted another new spare!) and scope out the inputs to the coils to see why the last one died , by the end of that i had noticed a little mayo under the oil cap, an oil catch can half full of water, and some oil in the header tank. but the car drive great and didnt overheat..

i cleaned out all the gunk and running on all 4 cylinders it was fine, with what appeared to be a very very slow weeping of water into the oil. so re-torqued the head as a last ditch bodge as im enjoyign the car to much to take it off the road right now., all the bolts took exactly 1.6 full turns more than they were previously and the problem has gone! im pretty sure it wont last, but whilst the roads are nice and dry right now id rather be out in the car than working on it :lol:

my catch can is abou the size of a can of coke (330ml one) and water was being deposited in it at a rate of about 1cm per 150 hard miles.

Im still plagued wiht smokey turbo issues, and this is really getting to me. this turbo i know (like my last one) was 110% a goodun, came off a car i seen running and i removed it myself! its odd though, it will smoke on cold start, and sometimes at idle itll smoke, sometimes at idle it will be clear as a whistle. pullin gthe plugs on the engine and a compression test all show good health. when i have the turbo manifold off there is no evidence of oil in the exhaust ports. next up under the microscope is the turbo oil feed/returns, the return is the same size as standard nissan returns and im confident it enters the sump above the oil level line, but im going to double check this! my oil feed line is large and unrestricted, will be experimenting wiht some nitrous jet's shortly :lol:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?s=84a566fdcbd30c9feaea5c099db80309&t=569238&page=2

i need to get to the bottom of this,, am so happy with how the car performs and looks, and the occational blue mist just lets it down :cry:

boost starts to come in at 4000rpm but i dont ge tfull boost untill 5200rpm! which sounds awfull but on the road its actually alright, the gear ratios match it well :)

and finally, my bonet folded back on itself when i was doing a silly speed. i have the front bonet pins rather far back, but thankfully the gel-coat (and subsequently paint) jsut flexed and didnt even crack! so i have added stregnthening underneath and all is good.

[Allan McD]

When are you going to Crail I need a 200bhp mini to race 8)
Allan

[evolotion]

not sure allan, few gents i know are heading up the next non-mag day, i will definately be up to play, but not sure on dates right now.

[mininut]

Looks like you've made pretty good progress, clutch sounds good with no slip after some miles and boost ;) did you end up machining the faces or space out the pressure plate?

When are you expecting to get it on the roller with the "updated" blower? be good to see how much more horses you're making.

M.

[evolotion]

spaced out the pressure plate, i sat with a big bag of washers and a micrometer till i found 6 that were all identical :lol: took a while but touch wood its still working grand.

also fitted a 2mm restrictor to the oil feed line to the turbo, no more smoke! i do occationally get a puff when its been idling for 20 mins or more then i accelerate, but dont want to risk restrictign the feed any more.

got a rolling road day 10th of november and drag racing the day after, going to be a fun weekend :lol: ordered new tyres in anticipation, just waiting on them ariving so i can try map for a little more boost, but doubt itll take much more.

[mininut]

Sounds great matey. good job.

M.

[evolotion]

ohk, had the car on the rollers, made some stonking figures which were a little to good to be true, but even if you whack 50hp off them for good measure there still awesome.

331bhp@7917rpm and 220.1ft/lb@7917rpm @20psi

I was expecting ( and stil believe it should be) around the 280 mark.
discussion HERE: http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11033


started pulling the engine apart! lots of good news :) and still some unanswered questions.

Head gasket failure:
The result as far as i can tell is simply this, the join between shim and head was ok, the join between the old-style gasket and shim and the old style gasket and block were also ok. The trouble area was the area between teh two shims. this is obvious on cylinders 1&4 as you can see in the pics.

http://images31.fotki.com/v1049/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0868-vi.jpg
http://images32.fotki.com/v1064/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0869-vi.jpg
http://images30.fotki.com/v472/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0871-vi.jpg
http://images30.fotki.com/v1037/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0872-vi.jpg
http://images32.fotki.com/v1059/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0873-vi.jpg
http://images32.fotki.com/v1047/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0874-vi.jpg
http://images30.fotki.com/v479/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0876-vi.jpg

the head gasket assembly has been weeping on and off for a month or so now, so the failure shown is the result of quite some time.

symptoms were slight water in teh oil, very very very very slight oil in water. and water droplets from the exahust on cold start. once warm all was well, the car never overheated!

will need to concoct a new gasket sandwich that doesnt involve a shim on shim setup if i cant dish the pistons.

Pistons:
the crown is mint, not even the slightest sign of detonation!, will pull them shortly to check the ringlands and main/bigend bearings. still, seing this put a smile on my face!

will measure crown thickness whislt i have one out, be interesting to see if i can get a dish in them to eliminate the head gasket sandwich.

http://images31.fotki.com/v1050/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0875-vi.jpg

Head bolts:
Had suspicions these were streatching, unfortunately they seem to be SHORTER! than all the other head bolts i have lying around :( wish i had measured them first! .. at any rate after seign the obvious failure between the shims, if i can eliminate this the head bolt theory may be redundant!

Turbo:
as you know i have suffered a few failures. well, this turbo is stil as fresh and mint as the day i fitted it! absolutely over teh moon at this! .. moral of the story, turbo a K, fit an oil cooler :) even if tis a tiny wee one:)

Cylinder head:
will be getting it skimmed and measured for flatness first, curious to see how this has affected the shims. one exhaust valve has lots of deposits on it, the rest are clean and lovely. will need to find out exactly wtf is going on wiht that before the head goes back on aswell..

http://images30.fotki.com/v38/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0878-vi.jpg

[gazwad]

over 300 horses is immense! good work :D makes my 165bhp seem a bit lame :(

now where did i put that bini charger.....

[evolotion]

ohk, i have hi-res versions of teh pics above, been studyign them as well as the parts in question.

if you look a the shot of the head you will notice cylinders 1 and 3 are nice, nice valves and very minimal carbon buildup.

cylinder 4 has a little carbon buildup and some noticable carbon buildup on the left exhaust valve(as viewed in the pic) around this valve you will also noticce the carbon deposits in teh combustion chamber are washed away.

cylinder 2 is the same as cylinder 4, except more severe!

look at the pic below
http://images30.fotki.com/v472/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0871-vi.jpg

and you will notice the fire ring of cylinder 2 has lots of oily deposits, and this is also visible, to a lesser extent, on cylinder 4. i am hoping oil was getting into the bores via the fire ring, the evidence points that way. but to be on the safe side will be pulling No2 piston at the very least! if its grand then i will not disturb the others, no point fixing something that isnt broke :lol:

was planning on pulling the bottom end apart today but unfortunatly, its raining. :cry:

whilst im inspecting the bottom end i'll be drilling and tapping the main bearing ladder for the turbo oil return and fitting another sump. the oil return i have in the sump justnow has always leaked, and requires the oil level to be kept low to stop oil backing up in the return line, not ideal!

[Allan McD]

( and requires the oil level to be kept low to stop oil backing up in the return line, not ideal! )

I think you are correct :shock:
Have you not got anywher dry yet ?
Allan

[evolotion]

to work on the car? no :( but once the bottom end is out i'll be stripping/inspecting it in the house, so its not so bad. will also give me an oportunity to see how the clutch is doing, if there are any signs of impending failure :)

[Allan McD]

What you need is a wider door for the house :lol:
Allan

[noisymini]

Good old HGF :wink: :lol:

Looks like you got things under control. Impressive to think the standard pistons seem to cope with that boost etc

Was just wondering. Why did u choose to use that type of gasket rather than the land rover type. I ran a Turbo A-series with two standard payen gaskets (BK450) which IIRC seem to be the same kind of material as the k land rover gasket. I ran it for at least six months daily before pulling it apart to fit a proper turbo head and there was no sign of any troubles. I wasn't running the kind of boost you are though.

[evolotion]

your missing the point of the failure mate :) the gasket i used didnt fail atall, it was perfect on both its faces, the failure was betweeen the two shims,(remember it was head - shim - shim - gasket - block) this was because the shims are shiney smooth hard steel, th selant i bonded the shims together with jsut couldnt stick well enough and it failed.

the selant is designed to stick the shim to the cylinder head, and it did this flawlessly. and the gasket is designed to seal against the shim, again it did this flawlessly :) I chose to use that particular kind of gasket as it was cheap :) and with the surfaces well prepared there should be no reason for it to fail. and it didnt :)

the BK450 is a composite gasket, the landrover gasket is multi layer steel, i know as i have 2 sitting here :P the older style k-series gasket with the elastomeric beeding isnt suitable for stacking up IMHO. but the MLS landrover gaskets definately are, as i have seen and used stacked MLS gaskets wiht success in a few other cars. should have time to pull the bottom end apart and inspect the ring lands tomorow evening , weather permitting :)

[noisymini]

Yeah i can see why it failed. Was just thinking as the land rover gasket comes as a two piece with the ‘metal plate’ perhaps instead of using the metal plate, a spacing shim could be used between a couple of the landy gaskets then no need for two mated metal plates to try cope with that abuse. Definitely wouldn’t want to stack those elastomeric gaskets onto each other either. Maybe the reason the gaskets you used didn’t fail is because the seal between the shims failed first. Hence you having two landy gaskets? I know the elastomeric gaskets get a bad press as they fail, though that is generally under extreme conditions like owners ragging the car, thermostat stuck shut, water pump failure etc but i’d say over 200bhp/litre is pretty extreme :shock: :D

Hope the weather stays good for you. Wanna see what those pistons look like :D

[evolotion]

i get you mate. well weather is staying decent, but im working late this evening instead as there is overtime going :) so looks like itll be the weekend before i get back to the mini :wink:

[evolotion]

ohky doke lifted the bottom half out the car without an engine hoist :kseries:

and got to stripping it down. bear in mind this bottom end had done 70,000 miles before i turbo'd it and it had already suffered one head gasket failure in its life. Quite frankly, it looks awesome in there :D there is some minimal signs of debris in the oil as a result of finding some scoring in the the bearings, this could be due to its previousl life or me cooking the oil, or running it for the last wee while on an oil-water mix, who knows, at any rate if you ignore the scoreing, the bearigns are ok. no signs of unusual wear, or bits of bearing getting pounded and pealing away. wish i had inspected them before turboing to get a bigger picture.

The pistons :)

well there fine! i expectecd to see the early signs of detonation on the area of the piston above the top pistons ring which isnt visisble while the piston is in the bore, but nothing, absolutely nothing. ringlands are all intact as are teh rings.

I also expected the piston to have a slotted groove for the oil drain for the oil controll rings, as most cheap cast pistons do. It doesnt! it has drillings in the usual place and a kind of groove above the gugeon pin holes to drain the oil. More good news!

piston crown is ~6mm thick at its thinnest part, i dont know if id chance dishing these TBO, mite be ok along wiht head work for a low boost setup though.

Unfortunately the battery in my digital calipers is flat and my micrometer is in work, so heres a rough spec of the piston ring layout:

crown to 1st ring:5.7mm
1st ring to 2nd ring: 4mm
2nd to oil controll ring:3mm

rings are about 1.2 mm high and oil controll is about 3mm.

http://images31.fotki.com/v1052/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0880-vi.jpg

http://images31.fotki.com/v1051/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0881-vi.jpg

http://images32.fotki.com/v1061/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0882-vi.jpg

http://images32.fotki.com/v1065/photos/5/512767/1800150/IMG_0883-vi.jpg

overall rather happy :)

[noisymini]

Looking good. Impressed that the pistons look so good.

How many miles has the bottom end done running boost? Has it pinked at all while you've been experimenting with upping the boost?

8)

[evolotion]

done about 7k ish all in. it has knocked real bad a few times at full boost and high ish rev's, but the second i hear it i lift off. i think the blowing between the shims had a good part in savign the pistons when this occurred! still to early to say the pistons are bullet proof, need to see how the look after next summer :lol: good early signs none the less :)

[noisymini]

Cool. Even more impressed as they've stood up to some detonation and that kind of mileage.

Next time someone tries to tell me the K-series is fragile they'll get the usual lecture from me to put them right and i'll have to point out to them how well a 70k bottom end has stood up to another 7k at up to 20psi boost!

:kseries:

[evolotion]

cars been back on teh road and running for a few days now, not much to report as its been good as gold! this time i used 2 landrover gaskets stacked together, thankfully the head was save-able, the engine feels much "smoother" on boost.

also re-located teh turbo oil drain as i proposed above and took the liberty of fitting a 360 degree thrust bearing kit to teh turbo. as well as improving the engiens crankcase breathign system Im guna try removing the oil feed restrictor to the turbo, in the hope that the relocated oil drain and improovd crankcase breathing were the main culprets for my smokey turbo issues, when i had the sump off i measured teh amount of oil i normally had in it and even though it was below the min mark on teh dipstick it was still high enough to partially block the oil drain. Im sure i had it all "worked out" before, but clearly not :wink: still no harm done as the wear on this turbo was very minimal :)

[The Mighty Mallott]

Hey Evo, how's the car going? Just reread this whole thread as i find it very interesting. Would your megasquirt take a knock sensor? Also you say it knocked real bad at full boost and high revs, sounds like fuel starvation, what pump and lines are you running??

Mat

[evolotion]

its not fuel starvation, i can get under 10:1 AFR at full boost on the red line if i want ;) was jsut me experimenting with ignition timing, trying to push my luck :lol: fuel lines are 8mm and fuel pump is an in-tank efort from a P1 scoobydoo.

ms could use a knock sensor but i havnt got around to fitting one, i tune wiht det-cans, but knock is pretty audible on my setup so i have a decent warning if anything goes amiss. Got wideband AFR aswell to allert me to any possibl issues!

engine is going great, but my gearbox is dead, currently building myself up another gearbox with better ratios, still in the process of stripping donor gearboxes and cataloging what i have etc.

interestingly the "dead" gearbox is infact ok internally, the diff bearings have slight signs of pitting and a little play, and the 2 sets of bearings that support the 2 shafts also have a little play, but no catastrophic failures! the plastic caged input shaft bearign is still intact, allthough a touch sloppy!

the only thing showing any wear as such is the differential, which isnt really worn, just the spider gears are much more "polished" than all the other differntials ihave stripped so far. Diff pin is immaculate.

basically, a well oiled R65 gearbox is mroe than man enough for any engine in a light and small wheeled car like the mini :) imho ofcource.

if you take into account this gearbox has done over 110,000 miles i think the level of wear is pretty acceptable!

[evolotion]

well i felt it was about time for a wee update. been alot hapening, mostly for the wrong reasons.
in order:
the landrover gaskets stacked failed in quick time. useless.
however they lasted logn enough for me to snap a driveshaft. :lol: so had some 1 piece shafts made. (AA trip home1)

then i took the liberty of fitting one landrover gasket and 1 FAI (coated) .5mm shimm in place of the landrover shim. this raised the CR from 7.4:1 to 8.5:1 requiring a complete remap. car was built back up on teh friday, mapped starrday and ran up the strip sunday.

managed a 13.8@110 in full road trim with tools etc, of 25 faultless runs in total. was over the moon untill on teh journey home i ripped the sprung centre out the clutch. (AA trip home 2)

i decided a wee break form the car was called for so for almost a fornight i ignored it. then on the wednsday i decided to attend a rollign road day taht comign weekend, so new clutch in octane booster in teh tank and wound the boost to 1.5 bar :twisted:
the resutl at only 5000 RPM was an impressive 189bhp and 186ft/lb still climbing hard. comparign that to my alleged 330bhp run, this run was consistantly 40ft/lb higher. untill disaster struck. at 5krpm a missfire developed very quickly followed by all the coolant crapping out the exhaust :lol: on stripdown i twould appear on cylinder 4 i have 1 burnt exhaus tvalve, a melted sparkplug and obvious signs of cyl4 blowing into the coolant via the gasket. all other cylinders were nice and healthy. :?:

So far the only rational explination i can think of is that No4's valve started to burn up(get to why in a second) casued some det which subsequently melted teh plug and blew the gasket. if it was det across the board i would expect to see atleast some damage in the other cylidners but nothing atall whatsoever. just cylidner 4. could be a sticky injecotr but i'll flow test them all aswell just to be safe!

the reasons i think that valve went 1st is simple, when i was opening the chambers out i slipped with the carbide bit and chewed that seat a tiny bit. decided to run wiht it anyways and untill that run its held up, i guess the massively elivated temperatures under tose conditions must have started to blow through the damamge.

other options are a clogged injector or the plugs are too "hot" (pfr6A's) either way my solution will be to cut a fresh head, fit colder plugs, and check teh injectors :lol:

I have learned something very valuable though. if severe det occurs the gasket will give out before the pistons. I'll pull the pistons again to check for cracked ring lands but looking at how mint they are on top i really dont expect to find anything. but its comforting to know the standard bottom end can cope with more power than i need it to make :) pending results when i pull the pistons again im hoping there will be no need to buy expensive pistons rod's or a crank.

that was AA trip home No3. they say bad luck comes in 3's. so with a paddle clutch and the above improvements i should be well on my way to making the power i have came to enjoy reliable.

[goldievvc]

yo man, what box are you running? i have the part number for a paddle i had made up by helix for my old r65u mate. let me know if it`s any use to you. need to meet up for a blether.

[evolotion]

R65u casing filled wiht a metro 5c35 gearset. So far i have settled on an OMP paddle(sprung centre) with the super heavy duty cover i made, few of teh saxo/106 lot have reported good success wiht these plates and boost. what was your plate like? can you mind the thickness? and much it skin you :)

[bodgeit]

sorry for a highjack but are the 106/saxo clutch plates interchangable with the metro one? just thinking of upgrades for my R100 :D

[evolotion]

depends, but generally speaking i think they are yes. both the saxo vts/106gti share the same 200mm clutch plate diameter as the R65u clutches and the input shaft on both the R65(u) and MA gearboxes has the same spline count and profile.

same diameter, same spline ,same clutch plate as far as im concerned :lol: covers are not interchangeable. to the best of my knowlege.

EDIT i have tested the standard vaelo clutch plate and cover up to 170ft/lb :)

[bodgeit]

EDIT i have tested the standard vaelo clutch plate and cover up to 170ft/lb Smile
standard 'tro or saxo/106 plate? from what i gather the saxo/106 plate has a slightly higher pressure than the metro item?

Matt

[evolotion]

the cover has a higher pressure..

and teh 170ft'lb was for a standard vaelo clutch(plate and cover) for a rover 416.

[goldievvc]

cost me £330 all in mate from helix. ordered on the monday, made and posted by the thursday! great service. that was 4 plate organic paddle and heavy duty cover. i`ll digout the numbers

[DarrenW]

Evo, any updates at all. Hows it running, had to made any mods to get it to run over a period etc.

:D

[evolotion]

sorry darren i didnt even notice this ..

well i havnt touched her since avon park, had a wee accident in my daily drive, so the mini is now my only car! .. apart from keeping my eye on the fluids and air in teh tyres all iv done is drive her :) which is nice. i have a small collection of parts for the next wee power hike (basically slightly lower compression ratio, alloy decompression plate and a healthy addition of boost)

clutch is still my home made effort and holding up great with a new friction plate. gearbox was filled with ATF rather than gear oil,and its still holding up great too. All done before avon park, not much to say apart from that lol re-hung my doors so they shut right and thats about it! :lol:

[mininut]

It's really impressive the way you've put that motor together. Hats off to you matey.

M.

[gazwad]

more power :shock: you crazy fool....get on with it :twisted:

[evolotion]

It's really impressive the way you've put that motor together. Hats off to you matey.

M.

cheers Mr maz, never know what to say to compliments :oops: esp coming from someone i have looked towards for inspiration during my build :wink:

[ivanhoew]

denis i dont know if it helps but ..

on my bike i have a v similar type of block design to the rover (i think )

with that , i made a mild steel plate shim 1.4mm thick ,and used the mls gasket by taking the rivets out of it ,and discarding the middle layer ,and putting my shim in its place ,so i end up with a coated thin shim ,a spacer shim ,then the other coated one , then i globbed it in hylomar and assembled it ,totally grease free .

it has never blown in 6 years running 15 to 16 psi ,135 bhp from a 500cc twin ,80 odd lb/ft and up to 11k rpm .cr is 8.5 to 1 .

6 years ago i was running 9 to 1 on 26 degrees timing and it annihalated a piston with detonation ,,,,but the head gasket did not fail .

regards robert

[evolotion]

to be quite ohnest robert, i like the fact the gasket is so weak :) i have never damaged a piston, if i run the engine into detonation teh gasket jsut blows, but usualyl so mildly all i get is pressurising of the cooling system. a few hours of use later the gasket seals again! This has happened twice now! at avon park ai started winding the boost up higher to a point where the dynamic CR was simply to high, the cooling system started to pressurise after each run. by the time i drove home to glasgow after turning the boos tback down, it was fine again!

what you describe is how the thick cometic gaskets are made ;) had corssed my mind, but one landrover MLS gasket and one shim seems to be working very well for me tbo :)

cheers,
denis.

[gazwad]

any news on developments? or is this going to be top secret... what sort of power are you aiming for now?

[evolotion]

no news coz i havnt done anything yet :lol: basic plan is alloy decompression plate to replace my steel one (and hopefully be a moove in the right direction for more boost and keep the reliability)

a bit more boost :lol: but not much as tbo im more tha happy with the power delivery and output. my focus is mainly on putting that power to better use, through tweeking my driver skills (or lack thereof) and changes in teh cars weight and suspension, but wihtout compromising its daily-drive-friendlyness :) as to exactly what im guna doo , its not secret, jsut even i dont know for sure yet :lol:

[minimutley]

Hi Evo, impressed with your approach! I've been building a k series for a 214 rally project, (you and your fellow mini projecteers may have sown the seed for a mini K though). Anyway, my findings while building my 1400 k:- early k 8 valve pistons are considerably stronger than the later damp liner ones. I decided on a good set of used ones. Bore wise both wet liner blocks I had had severely oval bores (5 thou+). So I decided to use a later damp liner block. All good so far, then I got some fast road cams, a vvc exh cam and also a pair of vhpd cams (probably to severe for std inlet manifold), all from ebay, to be tried later.
I have modded a lateish 16v head and fitted machined down vvc inlet and exh valves, this has improved the head flow considerably, but has meant a bigger combustion chamber, so over 1.2mm has been skimmed from the head, but still the cr is only 10.4 to 1. The reason, of course is the early pistons are flat, later ones were flat-domed, this, when you think about it overcomes the removal of the step in the top of the liner! So I may look for a good wet liner block just to get the cr up a tad more.
So, for your turbo, if you used a later block you would likely drop1/2 a cr point (guessing, not measured it), which might be of help to you, unless you prefer to keep the stepped liner?

[evolotion]

well.. the engine is built back up with the aforementioned alloy decomp plate. and awaiting some dry weather so i can map her up. allready commuting in her when its not snowing :lol:

my issue with the damp liner engines isnt the pistons per-se. its the liners. have had a hand in a few turbocharged honda builds (and stripping others turbo builds). and seen liners crack first hand this includes engines with braces to support the tops of the liners, now the damp linerd k engines are very similar, but much much weaker than say a honda b-series when you look at material supporting the steel liners and the thickness of the liners. gut feeling (could be wrong) is with any meeningfull boost they wil just crack. the wet liner engines are mutch stronger and better supported in the area close to teh combustion chamber, where the action happens, like i say, i havnt tried a damp block (yet) and this is all gut feeling.

i also like the step in the liner, it kind of "shields" the fire ring and gives it a little extra support if needed!

oval bores is interesting though... i'll be ohnest i have expected these engines to last me <100 miles each so didnt even bother to check. the fact that there lasting 10k+ miles has absolutely stunned me.

info is really appreciated though, and presents an ideal route for someone wishing a low ish boost~10-14psi build that uses cheap parts and avoids the need for a shim! my static CR is now 7.9something:1 (dont have notes to hand) im aiming for lots and lots of boost as i still havnt found what i consider to be the limit of liners and pistons. incidently on stripdown of the engine over the last few months, the bottom end is still perfect :shock: had poor valve seal on one cylidner which required the valves and seats to be recut, but otherwise the head is also fine :D

may interest you to know, i have had an issue with the gudgeon pin wandering out the piston into the bore. you may wish to convert to a fully floating pin and ptfe buttons to hold the pins in place. i rev'd that bottom end to 8300rpm and feel it had a hand.

as already said really appreciate the info. i know when the topic of k-series forced indution is brought up on any forum this thread is often linked (sometimes not in the best light! :lol:) so ideal place to keep the info. good luck with the build mate :)

another option to increase the CR may be to deck the block and somehow machine down the liners, this would give you the ideal opportunity to get exactly the 4 thou standproud required for a perfect gasket seal :wink:

[minimutley]

Gone the wet liner route, see http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14006&start=20
For info about bores out of round. Also I noticed in the post above that I said wet liner K8 pistons were stonger than later ones - scrub that, I made a mistake, these have oil slots under the oil rings, the best ones are the wet liner 16 valve pistons - no slots. The only other thing to note is that the wet liner pistons are longer hence are attached to shorter conrods.
Sorry if I confused anyone :?

[evolotion]

Gone the wet liner route, see http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14006&start=20
For info about bores out of round. Also I noticed in the post above that I said wet liner K8 pistons were stonger than later ones - scrub that, I made a mistake, these have oil slots under the oil rings, the best ones are the wet liner 16 valve pistons - no slots. The only other thing to note is that the wet liner pistons are longer hence are attached to shorter conrods.
Sorry if I confused anyone :?

noted that about the wet liner pistons earlier, holes instead of slots .. good to know that the 8v ones are different, as i was considering the 8v's as a potential source for donor blocks! and awesome info about why the liners were out of round! some man :) .. and shame its not the other way around with rod legnths!

[gazwad]

does that mean you can use the wet liner type rods with damp liner pistons to drop the compression? my only concern would be using the interference fit on the gudgion pins, i'd want them fully floating with circlips (like my forged ones), but thats gonna add to costs... another possibility if you're going to the trouble of fully floating pins is off-setting the bush in the little end of the rod as you've got to machine and fit them anyway...

does anyone know what pistons etc are in the kv6, i'm sure i read somewhere that they are stronger?

[minimutley]

Yes you could use the later pistons with early rods, but the later pistons defo aren't as strong. As for bushing, or even offset bushing, why? The small ends are marginal for strength now. If going to teflonbuttons or circlips just hone out the small end.
As for the kv6, the 2.5sare a lot stonger than 1.6/8, never looked at a 2l....
Anyone looked at putting together a 1.8 crank with 1.4 pistons? I suspect you'd have to run short rods (turbo 1.8?) and/or short pistons. Would be a good stong bottom end for a turbo.
Huw

[evolotion]

Anyone looked at putting together a 1.8 crank with 1.4 pistons? I suspect you'd have to run short rods (turbo 1.8?) and/or short pistons. Would be a good stong bottom end for a turbo.
Huw

have toyed with the idea for a bit more torque while keeping thick liners, but, 10mm longer stroke places a massive load on teh pistons, shorter rods meen significantly less favourable rod angles, again placeing greater loads on the pistons and all the above will stop it revving so well, which doesnt really suit my needs well tbo, as my setup needs to rev. would be magic with a smaller more efficient turbo though.

[matt]

See you got spotted on rovertech :lol: . How is the engine going are you using the car in these winter mornings?

[evolotion]

engine isnt going great, was useing her most days and she started drinking coolant, so done as before and re-torqued the head, all was a-ok so ran at crail and she started drinking coolant after 17 passes, head off a few hours ago and the fire rings have bitten right into the alloy decomp plate, either things got to hot and softened the plate or there were issues with the plate from day one, or im missing something obvious. the ally plate did succeed in one area though, there was no evidence of gasses leaking bewteen the head and the plate, only plate and gasket. Perhaps head - ally shim - thin landrover shim - gasket - block would work but thats a very expensive sandwich!

i have now done something a bit brash (and my final bash) before resorting to building a pukka bottom end, built the engine back up with just a regular BW750 gasket no shims, only the head mods to lower CR. so running ~9.5:1 just gotta tune her and see how much boost she handles and how long she lasts!

[gazwad]

sounds like the ally shim would work if it was harder, perhaps have it hard anodised/heat treated or try a different material (steel?) or maybe a different grade of aluminium (7075 etc)...
or you could try peening it as you would do on the head before a skim, this does help prevent the rings digging in.

[Hayling mini]

Hi Evo
Why dont you O ring your block?
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... index.html

I have the tool if you want to borrow it, or we could do it for you :D

Jerry

[evolotion]

Hi Evo
Why dont you O ring your block?
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... index.html

I have the tool if you want to borrow it, or we could do it for you :D

Jerry

linkey doesnt work mate :(

but its a thought! .. will do some homework, though not tonite as im away oot on the tiles.

thoughts are: i spoke to the shim people, they agreed with my theory the plate was to soft for he aggressive fire rings (i used the mls gasket which is supposed to be used with a steel shim, not ally!) and my suggested sandwich above ought to work. however i feel at teh power levels im trying to make reliable, sandwiches arnt cutting it! up to 1 bar, and ~200hp fine, but not above that, going on my findings.

I may be lifting the head, still concerned about this, my current trial with one normal gasket will hopefully tell me something important, if it fails the same way, im lifting the head, if i destroy a piston, then 1 gasket is fine, i jsut need dished pistons!

if im lifting the head then i need to look into tougher bolts (which bring there own issues, im concerned about a tougher bolt suffering plastic deformation as the ally block expands faster than the steel bolts during the heat cycle, weakening the clamp / damaging the gasket) or superior sealing (o-rings, good suggestion! .. shim people suggested it too, along with iron insers where the fire ring seats in the head!) and i'll still need dished pistons.

exciting work this development stuff
:D

[Hayling mini]

Sorry try this one:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0307pon_ringing/index.html

Jerry

[evolotion]

sounds like the ally shim would work if it was harder, perhaps have it hard anodised/heat treated or try a different material (steel?) or maybe a different grade of aluminium (7075 etc)...
or you could try peening it as you would do on the head before a skim, this does help prevent the rings digging in.

tried plain stainless, and steel shims with special coatings in both .2mm and .5mm, unfortinately peening the shim is a no-no as it would need a skim afterwards, would like to see the machine shop clamp and level a 1.2 mm shim :lol: diferent grades were discussed, aparently this was quite a tough grade allready. along with other materials like copper. but at some point i need to draw the lien and stop messing with shims, as sadly they arnt cutting the mustard for what im trying to achieve.

[Hayling mini]

O ring it :D

[evolotion]

mmm. sollid copper gasket with no fire ring, solid iron face, will need to do more homeowrk, dont know how that will translate to the k with its radically different design! Cheers!

[Hayling mini]

Well if you decide to do it, I can lend you the cutter or do the O ringing for you, I am sure it will solve your problem.

Jerry

[chrisg]

interesting, if you have enough meat on the 1.4 liners to do it then your welcome to use my lathe to cut the rings in the liners (got a bigger one now, not the little belt driven one :lol: )

[Hayling mini]

I dont think it can be done on a lathe, you need a special Cobalt cutting tool that follows the chambers.

Jerry

[evolotion]

Well if you decide to do it, I can lend you the cutter or do the O ringing for you, I am sure it will solve your problem.

Jerry

i could mail you down the liners and some wedge for your time if you wish? .. would hate to borrow any tools incase they got lost in teh mail or that. unless you think it would be better to o-ring the head?

[Hayling mini]

I will ask Andy, he is the expert but I would think the liners would be better, not sure it would work properly doing the head.

Jerry

[Hayling mini]

Hi Denis
Can you post a picture of the liners top view please.

Jerry

[evolotion]

no need mate, i have found a solution that prevents the leaking of combustion gasses, i went back to the old style elastomeric gasket, my thoughts being that the beading takes less force to comress than the black metal creases in the newer gasket, so more force is on the fire rings, so they seem to seal better. no shims, just an old style gasket. however, i noticed the last time i had teh head off that the engine was stiff to turn over by hand. so i took the time today to investigate, i either have a warped block or crank! even wit all rod's, flywheel oil pump and pistons and thrusts removed she is pretty hard to turn over :( split the bottom end and MAin bearing nearest the flywheel is showing signs of polishing on the inside edge and all other bearings look ok :| just aswell it only takes 4 hours to remove and strip thes engines or i may want to cry about now :lol: will need to set up the gear to check and see whats bent for my curiosity.

going to fone a scrappy tomorrow and get myself a few engines sat aside, as i feel its about time i tried a damp liner block.

And as for the trial of jsut one gasket. it worked great, even with the CR of 9.5:1 she managed to hold 1.1 bar of boost without issue with the timing optimised to suit kept it here for a few days till i was satisfied, i then started shooting for 1.3 bar, while sorting the timing i was having to much fun and didnt lift off when i heard some detonation and cracked a ring land on No1 piston. Other 3 appear fine.

So head bolts are ok, liners are ok, shims are ok long as you dont go above 1 bar of boost, standard pistons(wet liner) will take a power of abuse if the CR is low enough, conrods are ok.
So if i want the power i have been enjoying to be reliable, im either going to require forged pistons witha suitably large dish, or find some other way to lower the compression ratio whilst keeping a singe gasket and no shims, as i do believe the standard pistons are perfectly up to the job! However, pistons certainly look like the best route!

[minimutley]

Hi Evo, don't get over concerned by the crank stiff in the block, without the head on they all do that, it's to do with the shells not being "squashed" into the main bearing tunnels, quite normal for a K, as is the inside edge of the end bearing polishing unevenly. In theory there is arisk of the shells actually turning with the crank if you turn it over without the whole lot clamped together.
If you'd been carefull to avoid detonation do you think the pistons would have gone to higher boost?
Huw

[evolotion]

gut feeling, yes they would have handled more at that CR (they have handled up to just shy of 2 bar at much lower compression) the pistons wernt the limit, the fuel was, rough maths puts the equivalent compression ratio somewhere over 20:1 . on BP's normal super unleaded with no aditives i had to be right on teh nose of whats possible, considering i have great low inlet temps but less than optimum ignition timing. water injection/ better fuel/ more carefull mapping the piston would have survived, the other 3 are perfect, and the one with the cracked land shows no other signs of detonation, no erosion above the top ring etc, they really are a good piston.

as for the bottom end thing, i noticed it a few months ago while checkign the cam timing, i had to crank the engine by hand and it felt very stiff. however it ran fine so thought no more of it. last head gasket change i had to turn it over by hand again, and again it was un-naturally stiff both times it felt stiff with the head torqued down properly there is definately an issue with the crank or block around the bearing closest to the flywheel, odd because the other wet liner bottom end got way more abuse than this and turns very freely :| either way i wont re-use any components from it to be on teh safe side, but curious as to whats caused it. this bottom end was partially siezed when i got it due to water ingress, so could have been stiff from day one, i just havnt noticed till recently! its so stiff i could undoo the clutch cover bolts, with no pistons in without holding the flywheel! :lol: This is the same bottom end i was running at avon park etc so im sure if it was a serious issue it would have done the damage by now, but its interesting none the less!

[gazwad]

i always thought the older style gaskets were better than the new shim type as they require the liner heights to be absolutely perfect. could more material not be removed from the head chamber to lower cr with a good, un-skimmed head? i've got a scrap head here i could have a play with and see how much material can be removed, what cc do you need the chambers to be?

[evolotion]

I managed to get around 6cc out the head, but that was without thinning/recessing the seats, I don't think I could get much more to be ohnest, but feel free to have a bash! Standard chamber is 29-31 cc , varies a fair bit. May experiment with building up the head face with weld and skimming flat, seen it done before with good results but very time consuming, and you have to get the correct grade of filler material :)

[minimutley]

Hi Evo, couple of questions for you, you mentioned you're running your K series to 8k, are you on std valve springs? Also who's big end bolts are you using? I guess DVA has 1800 ones, but are they the same?
Just been doing valve cutouts in the pistons on my 1400, should be OK to run the VHPD cams - if they'll work in the 1400!
Thanks,
Huw

[Spiyda]

I managed to get around 6cc out the head, but that was without thinning/recessing the seats, I don't think I could get much more to be ohnest, but feel free to have a bash! Standard chamber is 29-31 cc , varies a fair bit. May experiment with building up the head face with weld and skimming flat, seen it done before with good results but very time consuming, and you have to get the correct grade of filler material :)

another 6cc should lower comp to 8.75 or therabouts?

how low does it need to go... ?

[bhphunter]

Hi mate

You got any updates regarding those nice slicks and your new wheels I saw in the gallery pages?

Have I missed a post somewhere?



David.

[evolotion]

nup no infos till i get up to crail and try them out mate :) but in all ohnesty i think they wil lbe crap except for on a properly prepared drag strip.


minimutley, sorry i missed your question.
standard valve springs and standard big end bolts, revved her to 8300. i HAVE had a valve spring retainer fail, thankfully i caught it before the valve dropped and did some damage. the collets were pulling through the cap, it was deforming. dva kindly put forward 2 solutions ,steel caps or modified vhpd caps :) however, im std valved standard cammed hi-port head. heavier valves and a racier cam may see valve bounce/float that i currently dont see. tread carefully. :wink:

spiyda, it depends on your application,for the last fortnight or so i have been running 9.5:1 CR and 1.2 bar of boost without issue, even peaked at 1.3 bar a few times. however i very much doubt i can feed in much more boost at this CR on super unleaded fuel. ideally i would have 8.5:1 and then i could run enough boost to comfortably destroy my gearbox in one go :)

[ivanhoew]

nup no infos till i get up to crail and try them out mate :) but in all ohnesty i think they wil lbe pineapple except for on a properly prepared drag strip.


minimutley, sorry i missed your question.
standard valve springs and standard big end bolts, revved her to 8300. i HAVE had a valve spring retainer fail, thankfully i caught it before the valve dropped and did some damage. the collets were pulling through the cap, it was deforming. dva kindly put forward 2 solutions ,steel caps or modified vhpd caps :) however, im std valved standard cammed hi-port head. heavier valves and a racier cam may see valve bounce/float that i currently dont see. tread carefully. :wink:

spiyda, it depends on your application,for the last fortnight or so i have been running 9.5:1 CR and 1.2 bar of boost without issue, even peaked at 1.3 bar a few times. however i very much doubt i can feed in much more boost at this CR on super unleaded fuel. ideally i would have 8.5:1 and then i could run enough boost to comfortably destroy my gearbox in one go :)
whats your max ignition advance on the 1.2 and 9.5 denis ?

[evolotion]

nup no infos till i get up to crail and try them out mate :) but in all ohnesty i think they wil lbe pineapple except for on a properly prepared drag strip.


minimutley, sorry i missed your question.
standard valve springs and standard big end bolts, revved her to 8300. i HAVE had a valve spring retainer fail, thankfully i caught it before the valve dropped and did some damage. the collets were pulling through the cap, it was deforming. dva kindly put forward 2 solutions ,steel caps or modified vhpd caps :) however, im std valved standard cammed hi-port head. heavier valves and a racier cam may see valve bounce/float that i currently dont see. tread carefully. :wink:

spiyda, it depends on your application,for the last fortnight or so i have been running 9.5:1 CR and 1.2 bar of boost without issue, even peaked at 1.3 bar a few times. however i very much doubt i can feed in much more boost at this CR on super unleaded fuel. ideally i would have 8.5:1 and then i could run enough boost to comfortably destroy my gearbox in one go :)
whats your max ignition advance on the 1.2 and 9.5 denis ?

it cost me 2 pistons to find out :lol: expensive info ! hold on i'll tell you what worked and what didnt :) *scurries off to get the laptop*

180kpa 12 degrees, 250kpa 9 degrees advance -- current setup seems good so far. thats from 5k onwards, i recon i could dial in a few more degrees as it approaches 8k as the efficiency of the mild cam + head must be strangling it but happy to leave that for now :)

i had detonation at:
180kpa 17 degrees, 250kpa 13 degrees. (i knew i was really taking the piss with the timing, but curiosity got the better of me)

it ran with the higher advace det free up the very top, 4.5-5k was where it really needed pulled back. roughly where peak torque is :)

[ivanhoew]

that 180 total? so .8bar and 1.5bar boost guage..

thanks for that denis ,my bike i run at 24 on 15 psi boost, big ic ,which i think lets me get away with it oh and 8.5:1.,i have fixed timing on that so compomise.

i think your prob running below best adv with that cr and octane ,......bit of water time ?

[Spiyda]

i had detonation at:
180kpa 17 degrees, 250kpa 13 degrees. (i knew i was really taking the grapes with the timing, but curiosity got the better of me)

it ran with the higher advace det free up the very top, 4.5-5k was where it really needed pulled back. roughly where peak torque is :)

are having second thoughts about running a Knock sensor / retarder on the MS ?

I think reading your story has convinced me to make the effort to fit the one on my bench when we put the Eaton M45 on the G13b. (I don't think it will be much over 1 bar, difficult to tell until we crank it up !)

A question... going back to the shim / gasket combination.. what do you think was the best combination.. ?

one standard gasket, the shim and sealant with the shim against the head ? I kind of lost track

Chris

[evolotion]

that 180 total? so .8bar and 1.5bar boost guage..

thanks for that denis ,my bike i run at 24 on 15 psi boost, big ic ,which i think lets me get away with it oh and 8.5:1.,i have fixed timing on that so compomise.

i think your prob running below best adv with that cr and octane ,......bit of water time ?

kpa i quoted is absolute, so .8 and 1.5 bar gauge :) sorry should have been clearer, naturally timing is interpolated between the two.

at that CR and boost i would have had very similar advance, possibly a touch less, with the higher CR i also have better squish. Have access to alot of timign maps for various engines, and generally speaking 10-12 deg advance is about the norm for over a bar on an engine wiht my CR and a 4 valve pent-roof head. not conclusive proof by any means but i know im in the right ballpark with it :) really should get some rolling road time :lol:

water is definately on the cards after your words ;) but only when im happy to start gunning for more boost :lol: i really like how the engine drives right now, i dont want to go back to really low compression again.

Spiyda. i have toyed with adding knock detection, but never got around to it, my ears havnt let me down yet (apart from that one instance where testosterone over-rulled them) i have promiced myself im going to experiment though, and have been collecting knock sensors (resonant and normal) for this purpose.

the best combination is no shim. the next best (for me) was old style gasket, single(steel) shim and wellseal jointing compound. i feel the alloy shim would be better with the correct gasket, but i doubt i will try one again. Roberts solution (page8) is a cracker, if a suitable donor gasket is avaliable to you? just dawned on me, robert, you didnt have a fire ring?

[Spiyda]

Cheers Evo,

I think we will try it with the standard CR and the knock sensor to start... I'll wahck the sensitivity of the knock sensor up with it well retarded and see how it goes... if its continually retarding the ignition I guess thats the time to think about lowering the CR..

Not sure about not running with a fire ring as per Robert's suggestion, the gap between 2&3 is not big on the G13b... as we have several heads, I might try removing some metal instead...

We are building a seperate engine with lower CR but it won't be ready til later in the year..

[evolotion]

knock sensors are tricky, you cant simply set a sensitivity, they have a window of frequency they must operate inside, and are easilly triggered by mechanical noise in the engine. getting teh filter circuit to detect actual knock is the hardest part. also, ideally, you dont want to be running on the knock threahold at all times, youll kill your ring lands pretty quick if you do!

if you can, have the engine tune generate light knock and record output from a non-resosnant sensor, then in the same operating conditions have no knock(little less advace) do a Fast Fourier transform on both recordings and note the difference. there is imperical formulae that should give you a decent idea of the frequency of knock for your engine going by the bore (should come up in google) look for the difference in the FFT graph around this frequency. this is what you want to listen too :) or filter for.

some food for thought :) http://www.deviantmethods.com/bigmoose/pages/knock.htm plenty more interesting articles on google :)

[ivanhoew]

that 180 total? so .8bar and 1.5bar boost guage..

thanks for that denis ,my bike i run at 24 on 15 psi boost, big ic ,which i think lets me get away with it oh and 8.5:1.,i have fixed timing on that so compomise.

i think your prob running below best adv with that cr and octane ,......bit of water time ?

kpa i quoted is absolute, so .8 and 1.5 bar gauge :) sorry should have been clearer, naturally timing is interpolated between the two.

at that CR and boost i would have had very similar advance, possibly a touch less, with the higher CR i also have better squish. Have access to alot of timign maps for various engines, and generally speaking 10-12 deg advance is about the norm for over a bar on an engine wiht my CR and a 4 valve pent-roof head. not conclusive proof by any means but i know im in the right ballpark with it :) really should get some rolling road time :lol:

water is definately on the cards after your words ;) but only when im happy to start gunning for more boost :lol: i really like how the engine drives right now, i dont want to go back to really low compression again.

Spiyda. i have toyed with adding knock detection, but never got around to it, my ears havnt let me down yet (apart from that one instance where testosterone over-rulled them) i have promiced myself im going to experiment though, and have been collecting knock sensors (resonant and normal) for this purpose.

the best combination is no shim. the next best (for me) was old style gasket, single(steel) shim and wellseal jointing compound. i feel the alloy shim would be better with the correct gasket, but i doubt i will try one again. Roberts solution (page8) is a cracker, if a suitable donor gasket is avaliable to you? just dawned on me, robert, you didnt have a fire ring?

no , denis , no fire ring as such, just the mls outer with a crimp in the circle around the bore ,then the mild steel plate shim ,then another mls layer .

when i dropped it to 8.5 , i simply used another 2 mls layers ,so now it has 4 mls slices and the shim in the middle .

incidentally ,do you know your head flow for that head ? and how much durration is the cam ,suprised it pulls to 8k ,if its a stocker !must have a fair bit of duration ,prob around 210 degrees at 50 thou lift ,maybe a bit more .im contemplating having the hybrids cams reground .

regards
robert

[evolotion]

incidentally ,do you know your head flow for that head ? and how much durration is the cam ,suprised it pulls to 8k ,if its a stocker !must have a fair bit of duration ,prob around 210 degrees at 50 thou lift ,maybe a bit more .im contemplating having the hybrids cams reground .

regards
robert

not got a clue! This is definately an area i need to start researching!. the car pulls 8k without to much issue but starts to feel a bit flat above 7.5 however, pulling to 8 saves me a gear change into 5th on the quarter :) i know im loosing out on a healthy amount of horses up top at the moment, but not sure how wild to go with cam selection!

From DVA's fine website :)
Flow:
http://www.s262612653.websitehome.co.uk/kengine/kflow.htm

as for the camshafts, i'll need to measure a pair :) after which i may pick your brain :lol:

[minimutley]

thanks for the infoon valve springs Evo, here are some cams I measured :-[ K Series cam measurements

Std Cam VVC Exh BP 270 VHPD
lift measured Degrees lift measured Degrees lift measured Degrees lift measrd Degrees

0 347 -90 0 362 -90 0 375 -90 0 397 -90
0 347 -85 0 362 -85 0 375 -85 0 397 -85
0 347 -80 0 362 -80 0 375 -80 0 397 -80
0 347 -75 0 362 -75 0 375 -75 0 397 -75
0 347 -70 0 362 -70 0 375 -67 1 396 -70
1 346 -65 0 362 -65 2 373 -65 5 392 -65
6 341 -60 4 358 -60 11 364 -60 32 365 -60
26 321 -55 20 342 -55 32 343 -55 75 322 -55
63 284 -50 59 303 -50 69 306 -50 119 278 -50
111 236 -45 109 253 -45 119 256 -45 170 227 -45
155 192 -40 157 205 -40 166 209 -40 215 182 -40
197 150 -35 203 159 -35 208 167 -35 254 143 -35
238 109 -30 242 120 -30 248 127 -30 293 104 -30
272 75 -25 277 85 -25 287 88 -25 323 74 -25
298 49 -20 309 53 -20 317 58 -20 350 47 -20
320 27 -15 331 31 -15 343 32 -15 373 24 -15
335 12 -10 349 13 -10 361 14 -10 387 10 -10
343 4 -5 359 3 -5 371 4 -5 395 2 -5
347 0 0 361 0 0 375 0 0 397 0 0
343 4 5 359 2 5 373 2 5 395.5 2.5 5
337 10 10 350 11 10 364 11 10 386 12 10
323 24 15 335 26 15 348 27 15 372 26 15
300.5 46.5 20 312 49 20 323 52 20 350 48 20
272 75 25 286 75 25 296 79 25 325 73 25
242 105 30 251 110 30 262 113 30 294 104 30
207 140 35 217 144 35 219 156 35 259 139 35
166 181 40 174 187 40 179 196 40 218 180 40
122 225 45 131 230 45 128 247 45 175 223 45
75 272 50 82 279 50 89 286 50 130 268 50
37 310 55 39 322 55 44 331 55 79 319 55
10 337 60 14 347 60 13 362 60 42 356 60
5 342 65 6 355 65 2 373 65 14 384 65
2 345 70 3 358 70 1 374 67 5 391 70
0 347 75 1 360 75 1 374 75 2 395 75
0 347 80 0 361 80 1 374 80 0 398 80
0 347 85 0 361 85 1 374 85 0 398 85
0 347 90 0 361 90 1 374 90 0 398 90
][/table]

can't find a way to paste the curves, and appologies for the shabbiness,
Huw

[evolotion]

really appreciated Huw :) will try and sort out a graph from that if you dont get the opportunity to mail me!

cheers,
denis.

[minimutley]

the graphs are there, page 2!

[evolotion]

http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/ksereis_cams.jpg

minted :) jsut need to measure the LCA on standard cams and gears and should paint a pretty complete picture :)

thankyou! ,
denis.

[evolotion]

well i have now stripped the second high-compression high boost engine(reasons why laters!) and am very happy to say the map was at fault with the det on the previous one as pistons are completely perfect. however i have discovered the pistons in this engien are mahle ratehr than the AE's in the last engine! .. there are a few subtle differences between them, dunno if this makes the mahles stronger but i doubt it! . ring land thickness is the same although the ring pack on teh mahles are slightly lower than the AEs both have drilled oil returns, and both have the big grooves for valve clerance. both came from hi-port early wet liner engines. mahles from an spi, AE's from an mpi. but i imagine its more age related!

few pics:
AE piston gudgeon pin bit, notice skirt doesnt cover the part under the pin
http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/pistons_004.jpg


mahle piston, note skirt covers 360 degrees:
http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/pistons_006.jpg youll have to take my word that the bit above the top ring is carbon and not detonation :lol:

AE showing profile of skirt with extra support:
http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/pistons_005.jpg

mahle piston showing traditional flat full skirt:
http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/pistons_009.jpg

and a view underneath to match the views of the AE pistons earlier in the thread :)

http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/albums/userpics/pistons_008.jpg


this bottom end survived 1.35 bar of boost of lots of hard road driving and a trackday and an 8k rev limit.

Will post why i stripped the engine tomorrow, suspecting a top end rattle from soemthing, and also want to check the mains, see if i have bent another block/crank. :lol:

[gazwad]

those pistons look pretty good! top end rattle is probably the lifters if it's been revving to 8k... they're not the best on the k series- the vvc ones are slightly better (smaller oil reservoir) and will fit so may be worth a try if you're having problems.

[evolotion]

not the lifters, it was the valve spring cap's. again! this time 2 inlets and one exhaust were pulling rhough and about to drop. lucky me .. again :lol: :lol: so word of warning, and im going to write this big jsut so its clear:

Standard k-series valve spring caps will fail at 8krpm

:)

EDIT to be ohnest mate i have never had a lifter issue :oops: the cars always ran on 5W40 fully synthetic, gets its hole kicked in 24/7 but oil and coolant temps are always in check, and she gets 3-4kmile oil changes. i also always strip degrease and prime "new" lifters before fitting. some lifters i have pulled out of engines have been shockingly gummy, but after a clean and after i have ran them look immaculate. :)

[gazwad]

ah yes the spring caps are an issue at those revs, you could either use VHPD caps and grind of the ridge for the solid lifters or get hold of some piper caps for hydralic lifters (probably the best bet).

[evolotion]

piper caps on order already :) should arrive next week :) going to kill me not having the mini for 1 weeked, you have no idea how tempted i am just to throw a spare head and old gasket on :lol: :lol:

[garyshoose]

you have no idea how tempted i am just to throw a spare head and old gasket on :lol: :lol:



He posted that two hours ago.......probably torqueing down the head right now :lol:

[evolotion]

you have no idea how tempted i am just to throw a spare head and old gasket on :lol: :lol:



He posted that two hours ago.......probably torqueing down the head right now :lol:

two hours and id be out on a test drive, cheeky sod. Allan McD has nothing on me :lol: actually a young lady has requested my presence in glasgow and has successfully distracted me from the mini :lol: just tryin to get the oil out from my fingernails justnow :oops:

[bhphunter]

So... how was she :wink:



:lol: :lol: :lol:

[evolotion]

well thats me just home... :lol: use your imagination :oops:

[garyshoose]

Well go and get a shower and switch the head before the weekend then Mr Lotion :wink:

[bhphunter]

well thats me just home... :lol: use your imagination :oops:


Dirty boy...


Good on ya! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ivanhoew]

pics denis , rod end etc ?

[evolotion]

oh .. yeah will be updating this shortly dont worry car is on the road now with the 1600 bottom end undergoing testing, just the weathers miserable :( so cant be bothered taking pictures as everythings outside :( lol

however, standard 1400 little ends will fail at 8000rpm lol im sure there is a theme here...

[Hayling mini]

Hi Dennis
Just noticed your latest times holy sh1t well done, maybe I will need to fit the VF22 after all;)

I love reading your build, you are the mad professor of Turbo K series:D

11.9 FWD is absolutely awesome

Regards

Jerry

[peskett]

Any noticeable difference with the 1.6 so far?

[gazwad]

I'm still very impressed with the 1400 bottom ends, it seems it's the revs that kill it and not the power!

[evolotion]

aye the other 3 pistons are A+ and the plugs a nice clean slight tanned color .. like i say i will update soon as have alot of findings, however very busy mooving flat + weather etc :( .. the 1600 brings the boost in almost 1000rpm sooner, which is cool, but my usb-serial adapter has failed so cant see my wideband so havnt ran more than 6psi. :) and havnt had time to buy another..

cheers :)

lol jerry, plenty more to come (hopefully) theres a million ways the car can be optimised i just ran out of time and money this year :( anyways, youll be in class J with the big boys (unless you lie to scrutineering :o ) best 60ft time was 1.85 seconds btw, all steel and glass windows + interior etcetc :) anyways, stop reading this and get yours on the road for testing, i expect to see you next year :D

http://www.britishminiclub.co.uk/components/com_joomgallery/img_originals/british_mini_days_1/british_mini_showdown_2009_13/british_mini_showdown_2009_105_20090716_1478998414 .jpg

[Hayling mini]

That is REALLY impressive, what would `i need to say to the scrutineer;)

Mine is catch 22 at the moment, cant drive it on the road as i need an SVA, cant tune it as it has to be run in. I am hoping to take it over to a friends place in a couple of weeks. Big private industrial estate & he has a 4WD rolling road:D

[evolotion]

silly sausage, should ahve jsut MOT's it as an engine swapped mini :) good luck with it and the SVA :)

[Hayling mini]

Its a pain in the backside, just goes to prove honesty will get you nowhere:oops:

Jerry

[evolotion]

ohky doke, Mini is under the knife after my release bearing chewed through another clutch, my release arm bent, my two 3k miles CV joints are scrap as are my wheelbearings. I am also unhappy abou the road manners as the power keeps going up so:

i need a bigger clutch

i need new front uprights that accept stronger bearings and CV joints

i need to seriously stregnthen my front suspenion

i need to reduce scrub radius (help with road manners, i.e. torque steer)

i need to futureproof the drivetrain with atleast a doubling of power in mind.

After some research, a freelander flywheel, rover coupe turbo clutch assembly, pg1 gearbox and k-series metro (mgf) front hubs were chosen, all these things are good for ~400lb/ft in heavier cars so should meet my needs.

Discussion on lower arm setup is here :
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19773

the engien and pg1 box are now hanging in the car on there mounts, interestingly i didnt even need to modify my engine side mount, and with minimal trimming and a new mount teh pg1 slotted right in. it is very far over to the passenger side though, however looking at the honda builds with y2 boxes (essentially the same, just mirrored) location seem about identical. the larger diff stops me having such a "tilt" on the engine however, need to see how this affects the fitting of accessories. fingers crossed!.

forgot to get any pics sorry :( will do and will get pics of the damage to the avon park engine too if i remember shortly :) the interesting stuff hasnt started yet though, hopefully make a go of the suspension arms over the weekend!

[ivanhoew]

does the pg1 have a lsd denis ?

[evolotion]

yeah, not all do. but i will be purchasing one with an lsd before she see's tarmac again. its quite a tame unit, simialr in design to the quaiffe atb differential, very plesant to drive. want to avoid a plate diff as i know first hand how snatchy thee can be in a FWD:)

[peskett]

I was suprised at how little room the pg1 took! Didn't even need to change my frame mounts.

[Coupe]

I must admit, the Torsen diff in the PG1's is pretty good. My 220 Turbo seemed to have just the right balance under acceleration - no excessive torque steer, and good manners through corners, you could definitely feel it working if you're not used to it though!

[evolotion]

ohky doke, some pics, please remember this frame has been on the road for just shy of 5 years. so its grubby!

First off the damage from avon park :) doesnt take a genious to see the problem here:

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/evolotion/2ec5d359.jpg

and while this isnt the same piston, it suffered the same fate a few months earlier

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/evolotion/502ca570.jpg

now the car started smoking/knocking in the traffic to get out of stratford upon avon, without a doubt the pin was already out at this point, and she drove all the way back to glasgow burning 5 litresof oil in the process :blowup: needless to say i took it easy ish.

Front view of k and pg1. incidently the early 1.4 crankshaft tail doesnt fit over the pg1 input shaft!! bit of a pain.
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/evolotion/06c73bd6.jpg

and finally a gearbox side shot:
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/evolotion/fae550bb.jpg

[peskett]

Not sure if yours is the same as mine but I've only got 5mm clearance at the steering rack and one of the diff housing bolts touches the rack gaitor. I was just going to countersink the bolt. Gear linkage was really easy aswell just a cut and weld job if you want any pictures I can get some.

Also why a freelander flywheel? Is there any differece?

[evolotion]

sure im clear of the rack gaitors, but will check, either way not to bothered abotu having to shave a bolt or teh casing if need be.

no need for pics mate, so far looking pretty straight forward :) want to do something origional with the gear change though as need to fit a 3" exhaust in the tunnel.

the freelander flywheeel thing is currently a hunch but hopefully itll bear fruit. basically 1.8 pg1 flywheels use the same clutch as the n/a 2.0 16v rover engines. the turbo engines use a bigger clutch. my research so far shows the freelander uses the turbo clutch as opposed to the n/a one. really hoping this is the case. though so far failing to find a genuine freelander flywheel :( alot of freelanders pop gaskets and sieze engines due to idiot owners, so get engines from other 1.8 rovers swapped in. complete with there clutch and flywheel.

[peskett]

I'll have a look in my garage tomorrow as I've an old 1.8 that came with a flywheel and when I typed the engine number into the interweb that came back as a freelander engine. And I'm sure that I took the flywheel off it. Do they have part numbers stamped on them?

[gazwad]

the freelander does indeed use the turbo SIZE clutch - but it is not uprated like the turbo one, the turbo cluch fits straight on though. you can modify the k series flywheel to take the tubo clutch (re-drilling holes etc) but it is easier to use a freelander one if you can find one.

evo- have a look at my gear linkage in my diary, was pretty straight forward to make and means the tunnel is completely clear. you dont need the stabiliser bar as long as you have an extra gearbox steady (i fitted one to the diff housing)

[evolotion]

the freelander does indeed use the turbo SIZE clutch - but it is not uprated like the turbo one, the turbo cluch fits straight on though. you can modify the k series flywheel to take the tubo clutch (re-drilling holes etc) but it is easier to use a freelander one if you can find one.

evo- have a look at my gear linkage in my diary, was pretty straight forward to make and means the tunnel is completely clear. you dont need the stabiliser bar as long as you have an extra gearbox steady (i fitted one to the diff housing)

some man :) aye waht I was getting at was the turbo clutch bolts on :) minted but, will check the photos :):)

Peskett part number or just measure the diameter of the shiney surface the disc has rubbed against, either would be fantastic, assuming ofcourse it's for sale :p

[chrisg]

dont know about your r65 setup but on mine the wheel just clears the box by mm's on full right lock, and thats only because it lines up nicely with the chamfer type bit on the end cover. pg1 looks very flat and square :confused: think there will be issues? apart from that dosnt look as bad as i was lead to believe! really must get the mgf striped :rolleyes:

[peskett]

Had a look today at that flywheel seems to be a standard pg1 which is odd as the engine number is a freelander. I'll get the code off it again later and you can double check

[evolotion]

peskett, any news on the flywheel?

wee update, started tacking bits of metal together, and managed to find room to get the base of the trangle nice and spread. it is coesy though :(

still not 100% sure what to do with the lower arm as its going to have to be very short, but will come up with something :)

driveshaft is going to be comically short aswell. may have to fit droop-stops to stop the joint binding out.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/evolotion/d47aae2c.jpg

[peskett]

Part number on the flywheel is "PSD10107" and theres another number which
I think is "511"

double checked on the engine number and it's a freelander engine number

[evolotion]

yeah sounds like a regular flyweel, gutted. :( appreciate the effort!

[matt]

Looking good Denis. Not sure on the short shaft. Mine is very close to binding and that Pg1 will mak it worse being closer to the wheel. Hope you succeed with this and get some more pics up of the whole engine positioning to the towers. Keep the good work up.

Also you running Turbo 3.6 or you going shorter on the gears?

[evolotion]

Looking good Denis. Not sure on the short shaft. Mine is very close to binding and that Pg1 will mak it worse being closer to the wheel. Hope you succeed with this and get some more pics up of the whole engine positioning to the towers. Keep the good work up.

Also you running Turbo 3.6 or you going shorter on the gears?

havnt made a decision on gearing yet mate, will sit down and work it out depending on a few variable, but the key factor will be trap speed at the top of 4th, everythig else i can compromise on ;)

ideally id have the engine lower in the frame so the shaft is more leval at natural ride height or even better angled up slightly at natural height(so its level under throttle) but as always its a compromise, hopefully it wont bind, but if it does i'll just limit droop. my old r65 shaft bound on full droop, when i got new shafts made i just made the short shaft a little shorter and it was fine.

[minimutley]

Evo, you can redrill the std fly wheel for the turbo pressure plate, so long as you have a lathe and some patience! Also need to balance it of course, just to be sure.
If you want a real sharp linkage, fit a mini/metro linkage direct to the pg1 - works a treat and it's real close, works well going up the box since the spring loading pulls you away from 1st/2nd; - 3rd and 4th just fall in, 5th needs a bit of a wack, but if your not going to use 5th it doesn't matter. Going back into 2nd from 3rd takes a small wack as well and can be trickey if you're changing down through a right hander. Fit it inside with a helicopter joint on the back of the box, job done. Works for me!
Huw

[minimutley]

Oh, forgot to say, you need to lop 1/2 an inch off th end of th pg1 input shaft cos the crank doesn't have a big enough hole!

[evolotion]

Evo, you can redrill the std fly wheel for the turbo pressure plate, so long as you have a lathe and some patience! Also need to balance it of course, just to be sure.
If you want a real sharp linkage, fit a mini/metro linkage direct to the pg1 - works a treat and it's real close, works well going up the box since the spring loading pulls you away from 1st/2nd; - 3rd and 4th just fall in, 5th needs a bit of a wack, but if your not going to use 5th it doesn't matter. Going back into 2nd from 3rd takes a small wack as well and can be trickey if you're changing down through a right hander. Fit it inside with a helicopter joint on the back of the box, job done. Works for me!
Huw

i dont have a lathe or patience mate :D would rather find an OE freelander flywheel but obviously this is an option i have considered as i do have a regular 1.8 flywheel here.

i have the steering coumn u/j mod done to the pg1 gear likage in my daily drive (cheers chris) and its lovely. but i have a notion for a custom rose jointed linkage like gazwads as it keeps the tunnel clear and seems not to intrude to much on passenger leg space :) though i will be adding a stabaliser bar methinks.

yeah only notice dthe input shaft/crank shaft issue when mocking up, what a pain. easy enouh to sort though! cheers :)

[evolotion]

wee update, got a few hours in after work tonite and completed roughing up of the lower arms. Now 2 things the pics don show are there will be another 3mm sheet of metal and the "tie rod" and balljoint will be mounted in double sheer to this, and naturally will be welded to the other side of the lower arm :)

would have liked to have the tie rod in a direct line to the pivot point in the bottom ball joint to reduce bending moments on teh lower arm and reduce strain on the tie bar itself, but this was not to be for wheel lock clerance issues!

Bump steer is non-existant (by sheer fluke) BUT the steering arm sweeps up to the rack at quite an angle, i will have to make some extra PTFE bushes for the steering rack or it will flex :(

anyways: -
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af104/evolotion/67966b1e.jpg

[garyshoose]

Similar lower arm set up to my old Zcars Aseries frame, only yours is much heavier duty :cool:

[mininut]

if you make that tie bar too short mate you will introduce castor change on lift. 11" is about the shortest you can get away with iirc

Coming together though, i'll prolly adopt the same set-up on my new frame TBH, so watching what you're doing :wink:

M.

[evolotion]

if you make that tie bar too short mate you will introduce castor change on lift. 11" is about the shortest you can get away with iirc

Coming together though, i'll prolly adopt the same set-up on my new frame TBH, so watching what you're doing :wink:

M.I know mate, tried really hard to keep the rose joint in line with the other one( paralell to an imaginary line through the top arm pivot) as this will stop any castor changes , think I have a 10mm or so offset from the ideal, hopefully be ok!

[bodgeit]

looking good mate, making good progress :)

[mininut]

Matey, when you took the mini hubs off, did you notice an signs of damage/fatigue having run over 300 horse though them for a while?

M.

[evolotion]

i was on early metro hubs mate ;) no obvious issues asside from chewing through cv joints and wheelbearings at an alarming rate, i blame the power for eating CV's but the bearings will be a result of the wheels i'd imagine and/or high speed runs.. the cv's wernt clicking or noisy, but you can feel the slop in them. either way your on allegro cv's (are you not?) so no issues really that would relate to your setup!

Thing is though, i have less weight over the front and half the torque you will.. ;)

[mininut]

so the ball joints put up with the abuse then :shock: that's the single thing I'm concerned about on the mini hub.

How much chunkier is the hub you're using now in comparison and how does the steering arm line up with the rack? the bearing is much bigger in the new setup i guess.

M.

[evolotion]

Get a 7degree tapered reamer and open out the upper and lower arms and fit late a-series/k series ball joints ( need metro hubs though) never ran the mini balljoints with the slicks etc.. I plan to do this so I can use the thicker balljoints :)

yeah the bearing is a modern one piece thing, and used in metro, mgf and elises. If they can handle an elise on track on slicks I'm sure I don't have to worry :)

[ivanhoew]

denis , do you think theres enough meat in a mini arm and bottom arm to ream them out for the bigger metro ball tapers ?if there is ill have to try to scrounge a taper ream and do that on the hybrid .

[evolotion]

denis , do you think theres enough meat in a mini arm and bottom arm to ream them out for the bigger metro ball tapers ?if there is ill have to try to scrounge a taper ream and do that on the hybrid .

well its on my "to do" or atleast "to check out" list. on the bottom arms i would say so, but the top arms are a bit questionable.. Certainly if i do it on my mini doesnt meen i advocate its safety for others on theres :p however given i have been using the skinny balljoints for a while now and seen no sign of failure its not a pressing thing for me to do, really depnds how cheap i can get the appropriate reamer :D i'll also be upgrading to M12 wheelstuds if theres enough meat in the drive flange for them :)

maz, hub is about the same chunkyness as an a-series metro setup, and steering arm angle is hanging low, so the rack angles down to it! bit annoying as will stress the bushings in the rack :(