Rover 216 GTI honda engine

[evolotion]

Came across a complete car for very good money(very very good money)
I know It has the honda engine, but what about the gearbox? will it be the same as used in the CRX/civic?

Looking at this as a possible donor car.

Cheers.
Denis.

came across this little snippet of blurb : - the main attraction of this car for me was that it really is a honda with a rover badge, since it boasts the honda designed k2 engine and also the honda designed clutch and gearbox

K2 engine!?

nevermind :( foned the insurance co and itl be an extra £1500 for whats left to run of this policy. and ~£4k at renewal time. eek.

[evolotion]

managed to find a pic of one eventually. just looks like the average SOHC honda engine, same manifolds rocker cover etc.

Found an american website referring to honda engines with k prefixes, mayb its jsut another way to reffer to them, i dunno.

[BassAddict]

I bought a mag while on holiday in the US coz it had an article on identifying Honda engines - they say of K series engines (bear in mind this is a US article so models are different - I think the I-Vtecs are K series) ...
"A completely new design, the DOHC Series K engines were introduced in 2000. The K20 2 litre debuted in 2002 and are found in the civic Si and Acura RSX . There is also a K24 2.4L "fat block" version in the CRV. The 2.0L versions have better heads, but you can fit the 2.4L block to a 2.0L head. K-series have the most performance potential of any Honda engine, but many aftermarket parts atre still under development. In the US, complete engines go for around $6500. "

Hope this helps a little ! I reckon its whats used in the UK in the newer i-Vtec civic type R's, but I'm not positive.

Rich

[BassAddict]

Just another thought on this - wont the 216 be a rover K series - I thought the only Honda engined rovers were the 827's with 2.7 L V6 - only know that one cos a mate was measuring one up to see if he could fit that in a mini - he's determined to build something bigger than my 1800 !!! :evil:
Rich

[Geehawk]

All 216's pre the bubble shape rover 200 (97 ish) are Honda units.

carefull the square shaped 216 had a long stroke not very performance orientated unit in, and i think a vw golf gearbox

[evolotion]

plans out the window anyway due to obscene insurance costs..

but the engine was in the 216GTI(old shape, DEFO a honda engine) and to be fair, for the size of them they aint slow..Doubt a VW gearbox would be used as honda engines spin teh wrong way.

VW gearboxes were used in the old old old 200/montego/maestro/whatever coupled to the a-series! could be this your thinking of.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/evolotion/216gsihonda.jpg
tadaa :D[/img]

[Guest]

I can clear this up, Rover did use a Honda Twin cam in the 416/216GTi Twincam (It a D16A* Engine) , it was the same a the Civic/CRX/Concerto engine and kicks out 130bhp, the gearbox however has a different final drive that alter the acceleration. The SOHC engine is also a honda (D Series) but only puts out 115bhp but can be turboed easily these came in 416/216GSi's and the single cam 216GTi and it's not a patch on the D-series. I don't know much abotu conversions in Mini's but the mounts for te D-series are completely different to the B16/B18 VTEC engines and also different to the Rover K-Series.

Carl.

[Guest]

Just noticed a couple of typos :shock: .

The single cam D-series is not as good as the twin cam, it;s not bad but not upto a twincam.

Carl.

[strudel]

I'll try to put a bit of light on this but only a little and it may muddy the water a touch.

The K seiries in North America as stated above is the i-VTEC in the newer cars of today. It already has been used as a transplant. The big difference is that it's a reverse E-W unit, in other words it sits opposit to standard. It sits like a Vauxhaul with the block on the front right and tranny on front left. I believe Honda is one of the only manufacturers that had the engine turning backwards to everyone else, now they are the same as everyone.

Now the D series. There are many in this bucket. But the D16A* as stated above is a bit different. Typically the D16A1 is a DOHC non-VTEC in the 86-89 USDM Acura Integras. It should not be confused with a JDM ZC for the same car. It came in the 86-87 Integra as a 113 HP vacuum advance system with a brown valve cover. The 87-89 has 118 HP and a black valve cover, higher compression ratio and better flowing intake manifold. Some tech notes call this a D16A3. Most of us in NA believe the A3 was produced in Europe and Aus/NZ as all 86-89 Integras here are D16A1's. Then there is the ZC JDM equivalent of D16A1 which is 130 HP.
Most other Honda D series are SOHC engines except the CRX which has the DOHC D16A8/9. Some articles also allude to this being a Euro spec engine with 130 HP. Numbers vary slightly from article to article.

Hopefully that isn't too confusing.

[strudel]

I'll try to put a bit of light on this but only a little and it may muddy the water a touch.

The K seiries in North America as stated above is the i-VTEC in the newer cars of today. It already has been used as a transplant. The big difference is that it's a reverse E-W unit, in other words it sits opposit to standard. It sits like a Vauxhaul with the block on the front right and tranny on front left. I believe Honda is one of the only manufacturers that had the engine turning backwards to everyone else, now they are the same as everyone.

Now the D series. There are many in this bucket. But the D16A* as stated above is a bit different. Typically the D16A1 is a DOHC non-VTEC in the 86-89 USDM Acura Integras. It should not be confused with a JDM ZC for the same car. It came in the 86-87 Integra as a 113 HP vacuum advance system with a brown valve cover. The 87-89 has 118 HP and a black valve cover, higher compression ratio and better flowing intake manifold. Some tech notes call this a D16A3. Most of us in NA believe the A3 was produced in Europe and Aus/NZ as all 86-89 Integras here are D16A1's. Then there is the ZC JDM equivalent of D16A1 which is 130 HP.
Most other Honda D series are SOHC engines except the CRX which has the DOHC D16A8/9. Some articles also allude to this being a Euro spec engine with 130 HP. Numbers vary slightly from article to article.

Hopefully that isn't too confusing.

I thought that thsi post was going to answer my questions, but it has raised others!!

Rover did use a Honda Twin cam in the 416/216GTi Twincam (It a D16A* Engine)
I have been looking at the 416GTI as a cheap 16v engine to use in my mini on a home made frame. Although I have held back because I like many others was waiting on a kit for a Std nose.

I know our friends on the other side of the pond have done the Std route succesfully, but as I understand it the dif gets in the way of the steering rack for it to be possible on a Rhd without resorting to modification of the body/rack postion.

What I'm wondering now is:
If I can source a W/E facing engine in the UK, I could in theory squeeze this into a unmodded front using a cut/shut K sub.

Am I way off track here?

Sorry, I meant E-W : with the gearbox in front of the passenger.

[strudel]

You are looking to use most any other engine than a Honda as the Honda sits reverse to most others. Vauxhall, Suzuki or any other E-W inline 4 will probably fit.

Each one presents its own problems. And each time there is usually a solution, either new or tried before. Driveshafts seem to be the standard across the range if you want to fit them to the Mini hubs. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that the driveshafts have to be in the exact same location as the Mini, let alone the lengths and the hub fitment.

There are many more inherent problems with each and that is why we are here to try and help each other out as much as possible. Try putting a complete different suspension system in like I am. Even after I get it all in I won't really know how it will work til it is actually driveable?

Best of luck in your selection of powerplant. Let us know how you make out. JS

I want, if its feesible, to fit a valver in std nose. I understand that the Honda units are W-E, although I thought there was a recent Honda unit which has reversed this trend..ie E-W configuration. :?

I intend to make a sub myself utilizing the Metro K sub and running gear (aka Watsons) without resorting to coil overs etc, or if I find a solution I will retain the mini setup and track.
From what I have read in various posts, it seems that the Watsons frame, like the AMT Vaux frame, retain the minis handling characteristics which is high on my list for any conversion.

strudel: lnspiring site, Oh how I wish for something larger than a 6x10 damp council garage without power!

[strudel]

If you want the new K series Honda engine because of E-W direction more power to you. Just so you are aware they did some different engineering things with this system.

I don't know how this would impact on a Mini fit. The steering rack in the K is about mid body height. Given this, the engine may, big question here, sit too far back to use the Mini rack. I don't know how any of this would affect the axle centre location. I suspect that would remain roughly in the standard location.

The other thing is the shifter comes up midway into interior dash. Interesting concept. Again, Impact on Mini unknown.

You are charting into unknown territory. Other than the cost of acquisition It would certainly be one heck of a project to undertake. Good luck. JS

I have been on the net most of the day looking at the HondaK. Its being well received - very nice ECU apparently- although if I was looking at buying an engine the cost would kill this idea flat for the time being.

Because this project has to fit a Std nose, I'm in no rush to make a decision on this just yet....maybe more viable in the future when the engines are more available.

I have the wifes mini to play with first :twisted: RoverK or HondaD as they're plentyful and so cheap.

[evolotion]

if your standard nose is a clubby, you have tons of room :P

For my initiation I 'm planning on using the other-halfs round nose. I'm hoping this will bring to light any weakness in my design and build up :( .


I'am not too concerned if I have to look like 'pinochio' because I'm only planning on people seeing the back end as I speed away from them! :P ....Plus if I keep hanging out for a frame, I don't think I could make it through another winter!