Mk1 Suzuki Swift GTI Turbo Clubby

[pickup76]

Hi everyone, ive been watching this forum for a while now and finally decided it was time to start mine. Ive been restoring my pickup for a few years on and off and as the shell is pretty much done its time to think engines.
Ive been up to southport today to pick up my donor swift. Its an 88 mk1 gti, with 48k on the clock (i think its most likely 148k) Its abit of a state but runs ok and has all the bits i'll need. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/07-06-06_2114.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/07-06-06_2115.jpg
Gonna start taking the engine out tomorrow, If anybody wants anything off it let me know.

Chris

[miniswift]

Hey Chris,

You should take most of parts clean and try not to break them.
I know mk1 Gti is getting very rare and they will sell very well.
If you log on to Teamswift, you will get good responce from there.

You should use under gearbox subframe to create your subframe.
It will make your life bit eaiser, I found.

If it is 48k miles, you have good one.
F reg will be last of mk1 so you will have mk1 ph2.
Which has better gearbox and better cylinder head than my mk1 ph1 Swift, I use for everyday car.

Anyway, good luck with your build.
I think I will be stopping mine for a year or so due to house move and so on.

Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

Thanks miniswift, just logged onto teamswift and left a breaking add. Hopfully i'll shift some bits off it before my parents make me get rid of it :?
Can you recomend anywhere to get bits to rebuild the engine? Not sure i no anywhere round me that im likley to get bits from.

Thanks
Chris

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

If you are looking for gasket set then you can buy from ebay.
I bought one from so call specialist and got ripped off.
I bought one from ebay and it was same product and I got it for £40 cheaper.
Also, some of parts aren't too expensive from Suzuki main dealer too.
There is one dealer who can give you 10% discount if you are UKswift memeber. So you could join that site too.
Many motor factor can supply what you are looking for.
Just some time you do need to go back to main dealer.

Good luck.
Atchi

[pickup76]

Pulled the engine out of the swift this afternoon. I'd forgotten how horrible minis are to work on, became imune to it i think. Everything came apart so easy on the swift which made it a pleasure to do. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/08-06-06_1918.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/08-06-06_1917.jpg

I'll sit it on the mini subframe tomorrow amd make a start but i can see its going to be quite a big job. It certainly doesnt look like it should fit when its next to the mini.

Chris

[pickup76]

Got the engine ancilleries stripped off today and sat the engine on the subby... then took the grinder to the frame :? not quite what i pictured for my original mk1 subby but it certainly fitting abit better now. Swung by my local welding supliers and picked up some box section and plate for the modifications. Progressing pretty quickly at the mo.
Anybody found a good swift gti of G13B manual they recomend as i havent found anything good yet?

Chris

[miniswift]

Hi,

Found the link!http://www.redlinegti.com/manuals/GTi.Workshop.Manuals.zip
it's pdf file.
Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

cheers for that Atchi but there isnt any info on how to dismantle the engine. Im really just looking for info on which order to undo the head studs etc. I found a manual on Amazon but that doesnt say if it includes engine stuff either, might chance it though :?

Ive found the gti gear ratios on redlinegti and it seems that if i run my car on 10" wheels like a plan to its going to be a real screamer which is one thing i was hoping to get away from with that extra gear.

Vehicle RPM Range Calculator by Bowling and Grippo
Input Parameters Are the Following:

* Differential Gear = 4.11 to 1
* Transmission Gear = 0.87 to 1
* Tire Diameter (Inches) = 17.75
* Tire Growth Factor = 0.000100 (Inches/(MPH*MPH))
* Transmission Efficiency = 85.0 percent at 3000 RPM
* Transmission Efficiency = 95.0 percent at 4500 RPM

Computation Results:

Vehicle Computed Tire Xmisssion
MPH RPM Growth(In) Eff (%)
--------------------------------------------------

50.0 3823 0.25 87.2
52.0 3932 0.27 88.1
54.0 4039 0.29 89.0
56.0 4144 0.31 89.8
58.0 4246 0.34 90.7
60.0 4346 0.36 91.5
62.0 4444 0.38 92.4
64.0 4539 0.41 93.2
66.0 4633 0.44 94.0
68.0 4724 0.46 94.9
70.0 4813 0.49 95.7
72.0 4901 0.52 96.5
74.0 4986 0.55 97.4
76.0 5070 0.58 98.2
78.0 5152 0.61 99.0
80.0 5232 0.64 99.8
82.0 5343 0.67 100.0
84.0 5464 0.71 100.0
86.0 5584 0.74 100.0
88.0 5703 0.77 100.0
90.0 5821 0.81 100.0
92.0 5939 0.85 100.0
94.0 6056 0.88 100.0
96.0 6172 0.92 100.0
98.0 6288 0.96 100.0
100.0 6402 1.00 100.0


Ive heard people talking of changing the crown wheel and pinon to a different ratio which sounds like a good idea but im having trouble finding out which ratio crown wheels where fitted to which swifts. Anybody know? Looking for something about 2.8 ish.

Cheers
Chris

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

I have all the info you need but in Jap!
Anyway, you will be unscrew from inner first with little at the time.
Also, cylinder head bolt will be scrap due to soft material it uses.
They are £2.1 each from main dealer, I think.

Yes, there are higher gearing crown wheel and input shaft.
If you can get hold of 3.528:1, you will be driving at 3.8k@70mph, if my memory serves me right.
I have one fitted with LSD on my gearbox.
I think it is from 1.0L swift in USA and Canada.
I got mine from guy in Ireland.
Go to Teamswift and ask, some them might have 1 spare.
I will get in touch with my friends and ppl I know.
I have done long drive with mk1 gti from Gloucester to Newcastle.
I had my car fully loaded and travelling 75-80mph and returned 42mpg.
So, if you can fit 10" with 3.528 diff ratio.....50mpg might be possible.
I have RH tank too so I can travel over 300 miles, non stop!

Cheers
Atchi

[Swiftmini]

Hello

Not sure if i quite understand the above calculations.
But it looks like 100mph is 6402rpm therefore @ 8600 it'll be pulling a theoretical 134mph :shock: (cannot be right, can it) and about 115mph in 4th @ 8600.



I don't mind my car being a screamer but iam thinkin the 3.528 may be better for traction. More things to think about.

Iam interested to see some pics of the pickup that you are restoring and also interested to know if the manual is any good.

Cheers
kev

[pickup76]

Thanks Atchi a 3.528 works out far better, i'll post a wanted on teamswift as you suggest.

I think my calculations are correct Swiftmini but im not exactly an expert at this. I just used http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html (awsome site) See what figures you come up with.

Using the same calculator and a 3.528 it comes out as 70 = 4332rpm

Chris

My pickup restoration is here http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=2730&st=0

[Swiftmini]

Thanks for the links i will look at the restoration. The bgsoflex site is the megasquirt guys i think its in my favourites now any ho.

found this on minifinity. the gear ratio calculator seems fairly good.

http://www.minifinity.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=TechLibrary&file=doku&id=gearbox

I put in the 3.58 diff @ 70mph and got back 3841 rpm, sounds about right.

And i also put in the 4.11 diff @ 8600rpm and got back 136 mph.

And 70mph in 5th comes out @ 4410rpm.

I think i'm gonna leave mine untill i change to a different gearbox.

Cheers
kev

[miniswift]

Hi,

Mnnnn.....
I used this site http://www.catherineandken.co.uk/sti/tyres.html
With this one, I worked out to be my top speed will be 138mph.....
Yeah, right I know.....
This site uses all of you ratio for all gears.
So, I don't know...
Any how good luck, if you have any prob, let me know.

Cheers
Atchi

[mrbell]

Just FYI, there were very few 1.0L Swifts/Metros/Firefly's that came w/ the 3.58 diff. The little 3 bangers didn't really have the oomph to get the car moving very well with that, so they only put it in the super economy models that weren't big sellers and lasted only a few years. Most of the 1.3L 8v non-GTI models had the 3.58 tho, and I believe they're the most plentiful so finding one shouldn't be much of an issue...
Unless, of course, you live in Utah where finding anything is an issue...

[ed4ran]

Hello Pickup76 :)

Im going to stick with 10" wheels, but i think ill have to get a new FD made :(
Currently im looking at just over 4000RPM for 70 in 5th :roll: ,

Will be keeping an eye on your project.

Standard FD
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gary.heritage1//tmf/gearratio.JPG

Reduced FD
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gary.heritage1//tmf/gearratio2.JPG

[pickup76]

Been well busy today! Got an interview with a company that prepares cooper challenge cars, clio cup cars and clio v6 race cars :D
Also got the engine in the car, slotted in beautifully, made for the job i recon!
Spent an hour or two moving it about trying the get the possition just right and then made a start on the new bits of subframe. Got the nearside all done and tacked in place. I used the standard gearbox mount and stabaliser as they fitted in a treat. Hopfully i'll get the other side done tomorrow and get it all back out of the car so i can weld it up properly.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/P1010025resize.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/P1010045resize.jpg

Chris

[Swiftmini]

That is lookin well trick mate.
Making fast progress, will be looking forward to seeing more.

I noticed that you are a motorsport tech student.
What is your course like? I'm at Derby uni studying the same course.
Derby sucks though!

cheers
kev

[pickup76]

Hi Swiftmini,
Its not a bad course really. Ive just finished my first year and i really enjoyed it. The first simester was motorsport stuff; engine primary balance, suspention principles, tire tech, engine maping etc. We had a few projects in the dyno cell with vauxhall echotechs and ive been working on a new aero package for a TVR Tuscan race car. The second simester was more achademic though, analylical techniquies, into to design, computing, statistics.
Aparently its back to the car stuff in september though so im looking forward to that. Hopefully they'll allow me to get involved with formula student this year as last year the car won and they didnt really want first years getting near it lol. Do you have a placement year on your course? Quite alot of second years on mine have been strugling to get good placements so ive stated looking already.

Goodluck with the course

Chris

[Swiftmini]

The course aint to bad. we have spent the year doing a bit of everything. We have had to design dbl wishbone suspension with working models. Just had to build a working 3D cad model of a v8 and all major components. That was on inventor 10, such a b itch of a program.
next year we build our own projects and the third year is dyno testing, head work etc.

i mainly asked cose i'm thinkin about moving uni, but i probably won't.
cheers
mate

anyway off to lemans. £100 all in with uni. 8)

[pickup76]

Got abit more done on the frame this afternoon and its looknig quite good now. Recon i'll have it and the engine mounts done by the end of the weekend if i pull my finger out.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/16-06-06_1728.jpg
One of the engine mounts
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/16-06-06_1729.jpg

Chris

[pickup76]

Hi everyone,
I havent given up on this but got a little distracted after i realised my everyday mini needed quite abit of work for the mot. That turned into a mini restoration and full respray. Now its back to the pickup but im back at uni for the moment and my dad wants to use his garage for some work on his 7 (bloody cheak :wink: ) So im going to have to wait till christmas before i can finish the subframe. Should have a few more bright ideas by then anyway.
Heres the distraction:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/19-09-06_1241.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/optomized.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/optimized2.jpg

not bad even if i say so myself, plenty of space for a bigger engine under that clubby front to :D

Chris

[pickup76]

Hi everyone,
Should be back on this project over easter now as ive got 3 weeks off uni. The original plan has changed a bit. I still have nowhere near the funds i need to finish the pickup so thats going to have to wait a while longer. The clubby on the other hand is going great but is haveing a few gearbox problems so the swift engine in now destined for that.
In the next few days my new cwp set should be arriving from Ireland. Its a 3.528 set so the gearing should be pretty good even with 10" wheels. Im researching the other bits i still need and ive had a good look about with regards to a fuel system. Im going to be running a mega squirt and spark on the standard inlet and injectors. Im having trouble finding info on if the mpi tank would be suitable or if i need to buy a seperate fuel pump and swirl pot. Any ideas? I also wonder what engine mounts you guys are using as im going to treat my first frame as a practice and make a version 2 but i dont want to use mini engine mounts this time.

Thanks
Chris

[Swiftmini]

Cool hope it goes well at easter. Iam also going home for a three week holiday so i will hopefully get my car on the road.

There has been some threads recently about MPI tanks so you should be able to find the info easy with the search thing.

I'm using ford cortina style mounts Matt sells them i think in the 16vminishop. Other people are using standard swift mounts and Atchi (miniswift) is using a pick and mix off different cars. Have a look at some of the build diarys to get an idea of what some of us are doing.

Hope this helps.

Your doing Motorsport at uni aren't you? Hows it going?

Cheers
Kev

[pickup76]

The course is going ok thanks Kev. Not had much luck finding an industrial placement for next year so it looks like i'll be going straight into my final year but that has its pluses.
Im just about to order a megasquirt II kit and wondered if anyone has a simulator i could use during the build or buy, as it seems stupid to buy something we only need to use a few times when i imagine some of you will have one already.

Chris

[Swiftmini]

I'm not sure if anyone has a stim, we do at uni, but you may get one cheap when you buy a kit. I think Ed got his with a relay board and stim.

On my course we have to do 240 hours of work experinece during the first 2 years, i haven't done any yet. I will fail and not be able to do the third year because of this. Oh well. I wish i could go straight into the third year.

Its really hard to find anyone who will take you on. Most people won't even reply to emails. I tried people like allspeed but they don't reply.

Good luck. The clubby looks ace by the way.

Kev

[pickup76]

Got alot done over the last few days. The 1275 already in the clubby developed what can only be descrided as an epic oil leak, oil was coming out the bottom about as quickly as i could poor it in the top lol I wipped that out last week meaning on friday i had a blank slate to start from. I had another complete subframe assembly so i bolted that in the front and started hacking it about. Basically ive got to have the mini on the road for L2B in a few weeks so ive kept all the a series running gear complete and used another frame to build the suzuki stuff. Over yesterday and today ive gone from a normal a series frame to a suzuki frame with 2 engine mounts done, so its not going too badly. Im hoping to have the other engine mount some head steadys and the gear linkage done tomorrow. Ive also got monday off work so hopefully i can get alot of the little strenghtening bits on the frame done and get it all finished of properly. Then ive got to wait till next payday for the megasquirt and anything else i need :( But i have got my new crownwheel and pinnion to fit in the meantime...o and my second year of uni to finish so i doubt i'll have much spare time on my hands.
Anybody know how i become a club member so i can post in the build section?
Heres a few pics to wet you're appitite
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/13-04-07_1145.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/14-04-07_2302.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/14-04-07_2303.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970614/14-04-07_2304.jpg

[pickup76]

Hi everyone,
Finally abit more progress on the frame as im off uni for the summer now. Got the alternator brackets and tentioner done. Had to re design the subframe a little on that side to suit the alternator bracket but its all worked out very nicely. Got the front rail made as well. Made it removable to make it abit easier to work on.
Ive started to it the radiator also. The original plan was to use the swift rad and fan but ive decided its just to big. So im using a mini rad with carb cooper electric fan on the back. Just hope its good enough at cooling. Heres a few pics of what ive been up to,

Chris

Any chance one of the mods could move this to the build section?





http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/03-06-07_1704.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/03-06-07_1702.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/03-06-07_1703.jpg

[duck]

Any chance one of the mods could move this to the build section?


Your wish is our command :lol:

Keep the updates coming, interesting project :D

[pickup76]

Hi everyone,
cheers for moving the thread over Duck!
Been back at home over the weekend and have got loads done. The subframes now finished with the rad mounts and alternator mounts finalised, ive also filled in the ends of all the box sections and generally tidied up the frame. With the frame complete ive measured up the driveshafts and got a local engineering company to sort them for me. Should have them by friday so next weekend i'll make a start on the gearbox rebuild. Ive been in touch with my local suzuki main dealer and he's getting all the gaskets and seals i need for me so its all coming together quite nicely! pics to follow!

Chris

[pickup76]

few pics of the new frame design,
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/09-06-07_1538.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/09-06-07_1536.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/09-06-07_1534.jpg

[ed4ran]

Cool, have you had it in the car yet?

[pickup76]

Yeh had it in the car a couple of times to do the engine mounts so the engine was positioned correctly. Got it back out now to finish everything off and as the a series is back for london to brighton and the retro cars show in a few weeks. Hoping to swap everthing over in a weekend so i can have the car off the road for the shortest time possible :D

[ed4ran]

What have you got left to do then?

[pickup76]

Not thought about that too much really...erm Gearlinkage needs sorting, exhaust, brake lines, clutch arm needs modifying and making hydrolic, need to buy and sort out the mega squirt. Once ive got the engine in the car ive got to modify the flip front hinges, sump guard and all the existing bits that wont fit with the new frame/engine. Quite alot really :?

[ed4ran]

Yeah, when doing my brothers we thought it was going to be quick once the frame was done, but there was still tons left to do. :oops: :lol:

[Swiftmini]

:D :oops:

[pickup76]

Got the driveshafts back today and they look ace.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Swift%20Subframe/15-06-07_1025.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Swift%20Subframe/15-06-07_1024.jpg

They turned a spiggot on one shaft and a hole up the other to join them. They where done a push fit together then a weld prep grove was turnied into the shaft so the weld is really deap. Should be really strong!

If anybody else need shafts i can get them done the same as mine for about £200

[pickup76]

Just been looking into toothed wheels for the edis but in not sure how to fit them to the existing pully. Has anyone already done this?
Also do you think anyone would be interested in the mk1 swift distributor ive got?

[Pete_H]

I'm gonna be running EDIS too and will need to sort out trigger wheel soon.

This might help http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastupby&cat=0&pos=9

I think swiftmini was after a mk1 dizzy a while back.

[ed4ran]

I could use a Mk1 dizzy depending on price. 8)

I also run EDIS with MS. Will be changing my wheel soon as I want to be able to lighten the pulley.

[XEValver]

My shafts were done in EXACTLY the same way...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/Vermiglius/Photo-0168.jpg

but the first time i used second gear, on a slight incline, just pootling along too....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/Vermiglius/Photo-0191-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/Vermiglius/Photo-0192.jpg

luckily i only paid about £20 for mine to be done, but i've had them redone properly now, with sleeves. They withstood the dragstrip without fail.

[Pete_H]

is there any reason why every1 has cut and welded rather than machined new splines on the inner end on a mini driveshaft?

[ed4ran]

probably because more of us have welders, and hardly anyone has access to a lathe and bits required to machine a new end. :lol:

[Pandora]

Isn't it more likely its going to break with a flat cut and weld? It did with eds, then we both, cut notches in to reduce the risk of them pulling each other apart! Like eds did lol BANG.

[XEValver]

is there any reason why every1 has cut and welded rather than machined new splines on the inner end on a mini driveshaft?

cost is an issue, and also there may be diameter discrepancies.

[Pete_H]

probably because more of us have welders, and hardly anyone has access to a lathe and bits required to machine a new end. :lol:

Hmn we have a lathe and CNC milling machine in the garage, it's got to be worth a go !

[Swiftmini]

Smurfies dad cut his own splines using a lathe and a dremel :o

I fixed my toothed wheel (from http://trigger-wheels.com/ ) with tack welds onto the stock pulley.

You can get one that needs the ID slightly increasing, i can't remember the sizes.

I think Adam on teamswift does a lightweight pulley and trigger wheel setup, not sure :oops:

Kev

[Swiftmini]

Iam interested in the mk1 dizzy if Ed doesn't have it. I have been looking for one for about 2 years :D

[pickup76]

My shafts were done in EXACTLY the same way...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/Vermiglius/Photo-0168.jpg

but the first time i used second gear, on a slight incline, just pootling along too....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/Vermiglius/Photo-0191-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/Vermiglius/Photo-0192.jpg

luckily i only paid about £20 for mine to be done, but i've had them redone properly now, with sleeves. They withstood the dragstrip without fail.

Did you just weld your shafts round the outside? Mine are welded about half the radius deep. Who did your welding also as the quality of the weld has a big impact on the strenght. Im sure mine will be fine, wont be having to deal with the same torque as yours anyway! :lol:

Not sure what to ask for the dizzy really, make me an offer!

Chris

[XEValver]

I took my shafts to an engineering company, they were V'eed before they were welded. I suggested that they be sleeved, but they told me that they had made them like this before. They may have rushed mine tho so i'm sure your will be ok 8)

[pickup76]

Hi everyone, Been pretty busy on the mini recently. I've had some issues with the gearbox but hopefully that will be sorted soon. Turns out mines a crossover model mk1 swift as it was a late 88 car. This means the CWP set i'd got hold of didnt fit. :(
On a brighter note ive given the engine a spruce up and finished the frame. Put the frame into the car again today and it looks good. Just got to weld on some tabs for the brake hoses to mount and do the brace bars then i'll put the engine in to do the exhaust and gear linkage 8)

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Swift%20Subframe/23-07-07_1934.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Swift%20Subframe/23-07-07_1933.jpg

[Pete_H]

Looking good...I'm almost at the same stage as you.

Have you strengthened the cutout in the back of the frame in any way?
and...
Have you sorted out your fueling? eg swift pump in mini tank

[pickup76]

I was tempted to strenghten it further as at the moment theres just a brace between the towers with a few webs going down to the original frame. The back half of the frame had abit of flex in it off the car but now its on its absolutly ridgid. I really checked it and i cant get anything to flex now so it should be fine. Will check further when its up and running and can alway add more.
Ive got an MPI tank waiting to go in but i havent got any fuel lines yet. Work screwwed up paying me last month so things are a little tight untill next payday (friday) Sould be able to get everything else i need then. Mega squirt, various pipes clips and all the little bits i havent thought of yet.
Still plenty to do before the money slows me though!

Chris

[pickup76]

Loads more progress yesterday! The gearbox internals turned up from my good friend Dara (thanks again buddy) and i built up the box. The engine and gearbox are now in the car for the final time, touch wood. Ive fitted the mpi tank and run the fuel lines.
Anybody happen to know what pressure the mpi pumps run at as im just thinking if i'd need to run a pressure regulator in the system somewhere?

Next jobs are to mount up the toothed wheel and sensor for the edis system and weld the lambda sensor boss into the exhaust. Then its mostly electronics thats stopping me. Hopefully the mega squirt will arrive soon!

Chris

[ed4ran]

MPI is 3bar i believe, and if you are using the stock setup then it should be fine with the stock FPR. :D 8)

[pickup76]

so is the fuel regulator the little bit on the end of the fuel rail under the throttle body? How should it be plumbed in? Ive got a few other plumbing quireies for everyone too. In the back of the block just behind the thermostat housing is one large take off and one little, ojne above the other. I dont have a clue what these are lol Also is the manifold water heated on the swift or is there just a hell of alot of breathers?
How has everyone plumbed on their heaters also?

Cheers

Chris

[ed4ran]

Yeah the fuel reg is bolted to the fuel rail.

The large one by the thermostat housing if the take for the heater!!! and the return should be on the curve of the steel pipe that runs along the block to the water pump. The little pipe feeds the heated throttle body, and the return is in the straight of the steel pipe that feeds the water pump.

[pickup76]

Thanks for that Ed, all plumbed up now.
Pretty much there now with everything! Just putting the finishing touches on the wireing but it cranks over and everything important is on. Wont get to work on the car till nexw monday now but should be able to plg the mega squirt on and fire her up then :D Excited!
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/18-08-07_1537.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/18-08-07_1536.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/18-08-07_1535.jpg

Chris

[pickup76]

Hi everyone,
well i've had the megasquirt on and had the can running for breif spells :D Had a few teathing problems with sensors/wiring but fingers crossed everything is pretty much sorted now and i can start tunning the car! It sounds absolutly nuts and the induction noise is emmense, i can tell its going to be a scream on the road. Might have to rethink the exhaust though as its a little on the loud side :lol:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/30-08-07_2001.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/30-08-07_2002.jpg

Chris

[Marcus Nordblom]

Looking really good there Chris, like the "command station" with the computers/drink looks like you just had James Bond in for tuning help 8)

//marcus

[pickup76]

Thanks marcus. One laptop is mine the other is my dads old rubbish (very slow) one but has the serial port needed for the megasquirt. What you cant see is the beer fridge behind, where the drinks keep coming from :lol:

[Swiftmini]

Good going matey 8)

[pickup76]

Long time no post... been very busy with other projects but over the last few weeks i've been back on the mini and i'm pleased to say its done!

I've got the week off at the moment so i've been doing the finishing touches. MOT tomorrow at 9 at the same time as my Dads Robin Hood, so tomorrow will either be very good or very bad lol

Watch this space! 8)

[pickup76]

I'm pleased to say its a good day! :D Passed with no problems. I'm having a few teething problems which i think is to do with interference but i should be able to get that sorted fairly quickly. Its epic apart from that. Barely any torque steer and the gearing is spot on with 10" wheels. Pretty much on demand wheel spin too! I'll get some pics and vids up in the next few weeks.

[Marcus Nordblom]

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[spNOam]

Great stuff!! I'm looking forward to getting mine MOT'ed at the end of the month..another two back on the road!

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

Congrat!
So tell me, what final drive ratio do you have now?
What length of drive shaft did you make?
Did it pass MOT with ease or did you have to do more work to it!?
Most of all, how does it drive!?

Very good build in no time unlike my project.
I wish I could get on with it but I have to finish my house first and then bring my Mini over from my parent's garage.

Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

Thanks Guys!

miniswift: erm, i've got a 3.528 crownwheel and pinion set fitted which has made the ratios absolutly perfect. If it was any lower geared first gear would be pretty useless but as it is its spot on. Not sure what the length of the drive shafts are bit they seem to be standing up to the abuse ok. I can measure the shafts if you'd like?
Passed the mot first time but caused a bit of a stir at the mot centre... everyone wanted to have a good look 8)

Its actually very civilized to drive. Below 4K its nice to pootle about in and very easy to drive. If you give it the beans though its absolutly ballistic. Barely any torque steer but and its easy to drive fast without too much wheel spin. I'm really happy with it. Still feels just like a mini but without the rubbish gearbox and quicker!

[Pete_H]

Sounds like you are happy with it....well done getting it MOTed.
Wish mine was at that stage :(

Get some videos of it on here If you can.

Pete

[pickup76]

Thanks peter, it was a bit of a mission to get to this point but totally worth it so keep it up and you'll be here soon.
Unfortunately though i broke my arm a few days ago so driving the mini is now, not possible for a few weeks.. :evil: I've bought a palm computer so in the mean time i'll get that attached to the dash for a real time megasquirt readout :D

[pickup76]

Well i've been out of action for a while with the broken wrist but i've used the time to tinker properly with the mini.

I've redone a lot of the electrics as i was having some noise issues. This also involved changing from using pulse width modification to ballast resistors inline with the injectors. Made a huge difference to the way the engine behaves...far better! :D

Also got the palm up and running so i have real time display and data logging in the car. 8) According to my data logging its doing 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds so its fairly rapid but I'm aiming for under 6 seconds so next move is to try and release a few more horses.

Its quite funny though as i was thinking it wasn't actually getting to 60 on the speedo very fast even though it felt epic. Had a bit of a thought whilst overtaking everyone on the motorway at an indicated 70mph...perhaps the speedo doesn't read right...its about 15mph under at all times :? not sure how i got away with missing all the speed camera like that...rookie error!

Seem to have got all the bugs knocked out now though so I'll be attending a few more shows etc soon, bring on the showdown!

[Pete_H]

6.5 0-60 sounds fast for a swift mini!
Are you going to avon park in july? would like to see the car in the flesh/metal :)

Are you running edis with Megasquirt?
we are having a few problems after modifying the ms for edis :s

[pickup76]

I think its my gearing thats making it fast! I gather that the other 10" wheeled swift minis are not running a different final drive so i imagine 1st is pretty useless so it must be a second gear start then into third :? dunno about the big wheeled ones bit more mass to accelerate is never good! I'll bring out the data logs to prove if you like :-p My car is pretty light weight as well so I'm sure its a combo of factors!

Yeh i'm running edis. What MS are you using? I'm running a MS1-extra and after following the build guide it worked pretty well (the edis side anyway) Whats The ms doing?

Definitely be at Avon park!

[Pete_H]

basically...the megastim doesn't operate the rpm on the megasquirt since the modifications for the edis :s

its ms1 with ms extra

any ideas? want to make sure it all works before it goes in the car

[pickup76]

Ok well i never bothered with a stim, just built it and waked it in the car. Is the stim making the right wave form to drive the MS now? You might have to get the ms setup with the correct firmware and settings before it'll run off the stim with edis mods.
Best bet is to ask on the MS forums. I know they can be very intolerable of ignorance but preserver and there is a lot of good people to help!

Chris

[ed4ran]

EDIS is easy as its self contained, you can run the engine without it connected to the ECU and it will be fixed at 10deg (Limp Home Mode),

So if you can start the engine the you can hook the 2 wires to MS and see if MS reads the RPM and you can alter the timing.

Do you want to check it works first so you dont do work on the harness only to have to undo it?

Ed.

[pickup76]

Evening!

After the events of the showdown i think I've got a bit of work to do. I've got some new engine mounts on order and so with the double engine mount design that's been suggested hopefully i wont tear any in half again!

Looking at my frame design though i'm going to have to re jig things a bit to get the mounts in. Thats ok though as i need to shuffle my engine a bit for a future change back to a round front.

That'll give me enough work for a few weekends but I'm also thinking its turbo time. Although i only got one good run (my first) i wasn't exactly quick. I managed a 16.4 but according to the slip 6.4 seconds in i was doing 65 mph so it was pretty quick to start with but in the following 10 seconds i only managed to get a further 20 mph out of it. It pretty much ran out of puff. I think partly down to my mapping but i would rather get the turbo on before i pay out for a full mapping session.

So I'm afraid here comes the questions...

I'm intending to run the standard engine and just run a relatively low boost (5-6psi) to hopefully get 150bhp.

I'm not exactly a turbo expert so if you guys could take a look over my suggestions that would be ace. I've been doing a lot of reading on team swift and here's what I've come up with.

TD-04 impreza turbo looks like a good cheap choice

I understand the principles of tricking the actuator with a bleed valve to wind up the boost but i'll want to turn it down. Is the only way to do that to change the actuator spring?

I'm planning on running the turbo under the back like Allan McD so i'll run an oil scavenge pump for the return but where do i make the take off?

There's a lot of talk on teamswift about bigger injectors and i think i'll go up to 330cc just so i have something to work with. Are the injectors simply a swap for other nippon denso items or do i have t change fuel rail as well?

Cant think of anything else at the moment but I'm sure there'll be more questions, thanks in advance!

Chris

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

Nice to see you are enjoying your car.
I think best bet is a talk with Garndi.

I can give you his mobile number if you would like.
He is one of top Oz Swift nutter with turbo set up.

Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

Hi Atchi,

Yep definitely enjoying the car! Surprising a few people with its pace 8)

Thinking about it i'll just post up on teamswift as that's the real knowledge base for this kind of thing! I'll let you known if i'm still having trouble finding out what i need.

Cheers
Chris

[pickup76]

Team Swift has the answers!

"Hi everybody,

I'm intending to run the standard engine and just run a relatively low boost to hopefully get 150bhp. Is it best to push the stock engine for this and just use 100 octane fuel or am i going to get a better result by lowering the compression ratio and running more boost? I would leave the compression alone. Especially since you have megasquirt. I have been running 7psi with stock compression(and only an eprom chip) for 10k miles now without a problem. I plan on turning the boost up to around 10 soon.....

I've picked up a TD-04 impreza turbo on the cheap which should do the trick but as engine bay space is at a premium i'm going to run it inder the rear subframe. Dont forget if you mount the turbo below the sump's oil level, you will have to have an expensive scavenging pump to get the oil moving, or you will be pushing oil past the turbo's seals.With the right sized exhaust and inlet i shouldn't have too much lag.
I understand the principles of tricking the actuator with a bleed valve to wind up the boost but i'll want to turn it down. Is the only way to do that to change the actuator spring or is there a simpler way? See this link http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.p ... =wastegate apparently you can modify wastegates off of older subarus to work on the cheap. I would try running it as is..... Impreza TD-04 should be preset for about 10 psi right?

Wheres best for the oil take off for the turbo feed? I used the blocked off galley right next to the oil pressure sending unit above the oil filter on the block.

There's a lot of threads about bigger injectors and i think i'll go up to 330cc or something just so i have something to work with. Are the injectors simply a swap for other nippon denso items or do i have to change fuel rail as well? There are lots of injectors that are larger and drop in, but since you have a wideband why not try it first and see how far off you are going to be? Might not need to change them. My car put out 119 hp atw, so that should be about your target 150 at the engine with only 7 psi. "

[ed4ran]

I read that on teamswift earlier.

Why you going for a turbo at the rear if you have a clubby front?
I know you mentioned going back to round nose, but why if you have the room for the turbo? :oops:

Ed.

[ed4ran]

Did you get the idea of the rear turbo from AllanMcD's (http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7222) project or other carrs with them?

[pickup76]

Ed,

My car originally wasnt a clubby and after an incidednt in a car park wasnt a round front anymore. A clubby front came up very cheap so i went with it but i did prefer the round front. I'm becoming very irritated by the 1 peice front as not having a bonnet is driving me insane. So i want to go back to a 2 peice fibreglass or a metal roundfront.

I could probably still fit a turbo in over the gearbox but i'd rather not intorduce more heat into the engine bay as its very hot at the moment. I like the idea of using some of the other avalible space in the car and after the beam axle i've got a fair mit or space down the back. Its also the only rust spot in the car as the spare wheel has created some pin holes. So i'll remover the wheel well too for further space. I like trying to do something a little bit odd too so thats another reason it appeals to me!

I actually read about it in PPC mag (rear turbo'd 205gti) and had half a mind to do it but after the showdown and reading AllanMcD's i decided it had to be done. I've picked up a turbo, scavange pump, a a few other bits and bobs which has taken me to only £80 so far but i recon as with Allans the piping is going to be the expoensive bit!

Chris

[pickup76]

Quick update, I've finished modifying the boot floor for the turbo as well as making up all the mounting system for the turbo. I've got most of the exhaust up to the turbo done but am having trouble getting hold of an impreza downpipe to butcher for the wastegate side so it looks like I'll be making that from scratch too. I should picking up all the pipes and fittings for the turbo oil and water systems tomorrow afternoon and I'm waiting for viper performance to get back to me me about the silicone hoses for the inlet system.
Should have a different wastegate actuator arriving soon as well as the boost controller so its all coming together really well! Can almost feel the boost already 8)

Chris

[pickup76]

Got a few photos of the progress so far. Basically everything has been fitted once with and all the bits i need to make are done apart from the turbo downpipe but i'm having trouble sourcing one. Appart from that i'm just waiting on the silicone hoses but they could be another 2 weeks i think :( So it looks like i'll be reverting to no turbo setup for MITP.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turbobootfloorinprogress.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turbofromboot.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turbofromtopcloseup.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turbowithlid.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turboundeneath.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turbounderneath2.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/Turboback.jpg

Chris

[Pete_H]

that looks sweet. I really want a turbo now!!

[pickup76]

Thanks!

I've actually had it running turbo'd now and it seemed to all be working great and spooled nice and low. I've had a faulty boost gauge though and without a silencer after the turbo it was a tad on the loud side.

Today i finished my industrial placement at BMW MINI though so i can now concentrate on the proper minis! Tomorrow i'll get the new gauge fitted and i've got a silencer to rig up aswell. Then its onto some mapping 8) I'll post more info when its running properly!

Chris

[pickup76]

right so I've had a few days to get the car up and running properly but the extra power has really highlighted some handling issues I've got!

I'm running about 6psi now and it comes on boost just over 3000rpm. It is massively fast! I don't mean slightly faster than before but hugely so. The turbo comes in low enough so the Cammy characteristics of the swift lump are gone and its just pulls hard through all revs and all gears.

I have no idea what bhp i'm running now but in 3rd gear at 60mph it will spin the wheels if you floor it...so i'd say its got enough!

I haven't actually been able to do a full throttle 0-60 as it squirms so much on the power that i have to back off. Looks like the culprit of this is knackered rose joints on my bottom arms so I'll be replacing those today and we'll see if there's any difference.

I've also fitted an itercooler from a cavalier just yesterday which should help keep this inlet temperatures down. I'll get some pic's up when i can.

Chris 8)

[Marcus Nordblom]

I have no idea what bhp i'm running now but in 3rd gear at 60mph it will spin the wheels if you floor it...so i'd say its got enough!

stop stop, please stop! Don´t drag me down into the rear mounted turbo swamp :blowup:

Get some vids up :twisted:

//marcus

[pickup76]

Here a few pics of the "finished" install for you all to feast on

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0282.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0283.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0284.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0285.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0288.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0289.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0290.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0292.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0293.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0294.jpg
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0296.jpg

[pickup76]

Now that i've had time to do a bit more mapping i've hit the cealing of what the injectors are capable of. Over 5000rpm it leans out no matter what i do so i'm going to go for some higher rated injectors as well as an adjustalbe fuel pressure regulator so i know exactly whats going on.

I've also decided to take the megasquirt to the next level so i've ordered the boost controller kit and a knocksense with megasquirt conection. So i should be able to set everything up so that if the ms detects a knock before any boost is reached it will retart the timming and after its on boost it will retard the timing and reduce the boost. This should allow me to tune the engine for maximum power and advance easier and to run regular fuel if i cant get hold of high octane. Got to love megasquirt!

Still having some handling issues though and its starting to make me think i'm having some frame flex. Not really sure though to be honest but it squirms all over the place on boost. I cant feel any play in anything that would explain it, my traking and suspension setup is fine so i really am stumped. I'd really like top get it on the rollers and see exactly what it is doing when it comes on boost.

All this will have to wait till christmas now though as i'm back to uni from tomorrow and the car is staying here... I'm having withdrwal symptoms already :(


Chris

[Smurfy]

That looks great, and it sounds like your getting some really good results :D.
It could be a good backup plan for me, if we cant squeeze mine upfront.

[Pete_H]

That looks amazing!! are you gonna be at castle combe with it? would love to see it!! would be nice to see a suzuki swift engined mini beating some vauxhalls and vtecs ;)

[monsterer]

it squirms all over the place on boost. I cant feel any play in anything that would explain it, my traking and suspension setup is fine so i really am stumped.

Sounds like torque steer to me! Welcome to the world of high torque :) Have your wheels got a big offset by any chance?

[evolotion]

awesome build mate :) as a reference whens she come on boost, and do you make any boost atall in 1st?

[pickup76]

Hi guys, Thanks for the reply's!

That looks amazing!! are you gonna be at castle combe with it? would love to see it!! would be nice to see a suzuki swift engined mini beating some vauxhalls and vtecs

Unfortunately not going to be at the action day as I'll be at uni, besides i wont be tracking it again till I've got the fueling sorted. Would be interesting to see how it fared against the big cc boys though! Their time will come 8)



pickup76 wrote:
it squirms all over the place on boost. I cant feel any play in anything that would explain it, my traking and suspension setup is fine so i really am stumped.


Sounds like torque steer to me! Welcome to the world of high torque Smile Have your wheels got a big offset by any chance?

I don't think its torque steer as i can hold the steering wheel straight and it pulls from side to side as i go up the road rather than just one way. I'm only running 10x5" minilights so not deep offset at all. Its funny as i had no problems with just over 100bhp but whatever I'm running now (150?) Its terrible!

awesome build mate Smile as a reference whens she come on boost, and do you make any boost atall in 1st?

If i nail it from tickover full boost is just over 3000rpm... or should i say full wheel spin... :shock:
Makes boost no problems in first but i really have to feather the throttle to tame things a bit. I'd say first is pretty tall in mine because of the different final drive but its still to low to use first hard. Its definitely a 2nd gear launch car now :lol:

Chris

[monsterer]

I don't think its torque steer as i can hold the steering wheel straight and it pulls from side to side as i go up the road rather than just one way. I'm only running 10x5" minilights so not deep offset at all. Its funny as i had no problems with just over 100bhp but whatever I'm running now (150?) Its terrible!

Still sounds like torque steer :) My c20xe mini is the same, seems to pull one way then the other even without the steering wheel moving too much... I do have big offset wheels though which make it worse...

[pickup76]

I don't think its torque steer as i can hold the steering wheel straight and it pulls from side to side as i go up the road rather than just one way. I'm only running 10x5" minilights so not deep offset at all. Its funny as i had no problems with just over 100bhp but whatever I'm running now (150?) Its terrible!

Still sounds like torque steer :) My c20xe mini is the same, seems to pull one way then the other even without the steering wheel moving too much... I do have big offset wheels though which make it worse...

hmmmm, i really was under the impression that torque steer was just the wheel being tugged about rather than it steering itself even with the wheel dead straight. You could well be right though as this has all come about with the extra power.

I'm going to have to investigate weather this is down to my having moved the wheel out a lot with the fiesta brake conversion! One of the main things i did with that was to fit metro drive flanges that move the wheel (and disk) out to make everything line up with the new caliper position. With 10x5" mws wheels which are not deep dish at all, i had to fit spacer drums to the rear and an extra inch spacer to match the new front track. My setup fills extra wide group 5 archs.

With 100~bhp it handled fantastically with no bump steer to torque steer at all so I'm quite disappointed about how the chassis has handled the extra power. I'm sure it can be sorted but I'll just have to have a think and a measure of some of the steering geometry next time I'm home...


Chris

[monsterer]

the wheel out a lot with the fiesta brake conversion! One of the main things i did with that was to fit metro drive flanges that move the wheel (and disk) out to make everything line up with the new caliper position.

I may be wrong, but i think by doing that you will have changed the ackerman angles (causing torque steer to be enphasised). Deep dish wheels have the same effect...

Someone more knowledgable may be able to confirm :)

[evolotion]

if that setup is how i imagien it then its technically worse than a deep dish rim, as the centre of teh contact patch is further out! would probably pull straigher with high offset wider wheels. if you can get some to try it'd be worth a shot for sure :)

[pickup76]

Ok so its a definite that my brake setup is to blame for the torque steer as the scrub radius is massive. As i was having some overheating problems with them anyway i think its safe to say that the usable limit for fiesta brakes is somewhere just over 100bhp and i'm going to have to look at another option.

The thing is i really want to stay with the 10" wheels. I know they're not the best for a number or reasons but its just a personal preference thing.

Are all vented brake setups available going to have the same issues as i assume they run the metro drive flange?


I'm just thinking about different setups and there is a few vented setups available with alloy calipers but i cant see what drive flange they use.

Chris

[Pete_H]

Hows the engine surviving? Are you still running standard internals? Would like to see some vids. Bet its awesome to drive!

[pickup76]

Yep still on standard internals but i haven't had a chance to push it yet so the jury is still out on whether it'll hold up.

Unfortunately the car isn't on the road anymore as I'm doing my final year of university at the moment (motorsport engineering) and I'm basically busy 24/7 on Uni work and formula student (my final year project is the exhaust system) so i haven't got the time or the money for the car at the moment.
The insurance expired on Friday and i had my last thrash the weekend before...so its all over until i finish and can scrape together enough money for the insurance...tax...etc. :cry:

I'm actually broke enough to not be able to afford any cars so its back on my bike for the minute... making me appreciate even the most boring cars a lot more i tell you!!

Who ever says students get it easy is lying!

Going back home weekend after next to mothball the mini for the winter, its going to be painful :(

Chris

[MarkLD]

Great job on the turbo install Chris, I have been thinking of doing something similar myself and it now looks like we have an inhouse expert, so I can pick your brains :lol:
First easy questions for now, what oil pump did you use and is it plumbed in before or after the turbo?

Any help appreciated

Many thanks

Mark

[pickup76]

Thanks Mark! I wouldn't call myself an expert though, but I'll help all i can.

I'm using an RB racing Standard pump
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/oilpumprbracing.jpg

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm

Its a spur gear type pump specifically designed to return oil from a turbo where the engine has pumped the oil to the turbo. They're about £170 pound new but i got mine for £50 of eBay :lol: God i love eBay!

Redtop rear mount turbo... How much torque do you want??

[pickup76]

just spotted this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Oil-Pump-Diff-Gearbox-Sump-Diesel-Scavenger-12-v-Drain_W0QQitemZ280272549324QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3091 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

:wink:

[MarkLD]

Thanks for the help Chris and the heads up on the oil pump, a purchase for next week me thinks :D
What have you done to your engine management and fuel injection to take account of the turbo? Turbo's are a new field for me and I'm not really sure if my ECU is capable of running a turbo motor, I know you need some sort of boost control but what else :oops:

Picked up my turbo yesterday and the engine is coming out tonight to modify the bulkhead for the plemum box, so no going back now :lol:

thanks

Mark

[pickup76]

Mark,
Fueling wise I'm running megasquirt with edis ignition system and an LC-1 wide band controller. I think this is the absolute minimum you should run but really when i get the car back on the road next year I'll be going a bit further.
The megasquirt's standard mapping is pressure/rpm which is perfect for turbo's but some other ecu's I've used are alpha N (throttle position/rpm) These are not ideal as its far more difficult to get it mapped right. Standard ecu's are a bad idea as they wont have the ability for some of the stuff I'll talk about bellow.
I'm running the standard injectors which are not man enough. Basic rule is for every bar over atmospheric you'll be running 100% more fuel. There's probably about 25% room over most standard injectors and thus, as I'm running 0.5 bar, I'm having some issues!
I'm also running the standard mpi pump and Suzuki pressure regulator which is not good enough. I'll be running an adjustable regulator (map controlled) and a proper high pressure high flow pump. Its very important to ensure the fuel flow is good and there will be no risk of it varying. At high boost and load if it leans for more than a second your likely in the market for a new engine!
I'm running a metro turbo actuator which is set at 0.28 bar and then a bleed valve to increase it from there. This i really not ideal as boost can vary a fair bit due to the bleed. The mega squirt is capable of offering full electronic boost control with a $7 add on and the right boost control solenoids so this will be what I'll be running. Having it integrated into the ecu means (and this is the case with most mappable ecu's) that the ecu can be set to reduce boost and advance if it detects knock. So will be a real engine saver if you get dodgy fuel or fuel system problems.
I'm not running a knock sensor atm, obviously I've got other things to sort first but i wont be able to map to every last hp without one (its far to loud to hear knock :lol: ) and it'd be nice to get the above mentioned safety systems in place.

A lot of people on team swift seem to be running standard ecu's and just upping the fuel pressure to run the turbo. This is really not a good idea as the fuel map will be not even close to correct. Very small variations in lambda result in large reductions in power so it really is worth getting aftermarket fueling to make the most power and safely!

Unfortunately due to money i cant do everything i want to at the moment, but I'm aiming to have all of this stuff in and running before it goes back on the road.

Hope that helps

Chris

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

You can use 3000GTO fuel injectors(360cc).
They are about £95 for set with wiring and look in ebay for a car breaking ad.
I thought about specialist comportnent ECU or Emerald.

Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

Atchi,

i think most injectors should fit with the right o rings but i wont be worrying about that until i finish uni.

I've had a play around with emerald and its very good...as you'd expect for over £500 :shock: same can be said for DTA very good but pretty expensive.
I'm not sure about the SC ecu though, it seems a lot of money for something that's not got many features, best off with the emerald rather than that i recon.
I went megasquirt as its cheap, has just about every function imaginable and the help forums are very good. If you're not into building your own ecu then you can get them pre-built for a little more but they're still a bargain!

If i had the money though i'd have a top spec DTA...if i had the money lol

Chris

[monsterer]

what kind of mpg do you get out of a turboed 16v swift? (trying to work out what engine to use for my next project)...

[pickup76]

what kind of mpg do you get out of a turboed 16v swift? (trying to work out what engine to use for my next project)...

Well i think its mainly going to be dictated by how heavy my right foot is! When it was NA is was getting terrible mpg.. but that was basically flat out everywhere shifting at 8k lol It actually feels far easier to drive normally now as with all that torque it pulls from low down better meaning i don't need to trash it to make progress anymore. If I'm sensible i expect it'll be right up in the the mid 30's...if :lol:

Chris

[pickup76]

Hi Chris,

You can use 3000GTO fuel injectors(360cc).
They are about £95 for set with wiring and look in ebay for a car breaking ad.
I thought about specialist comportnent ECU or Emerald.

Cheers
Atchi

Picked up a set of 3000gt (GTO) injectors off ebay for £35 last week. Bargain for 6 injectors i recon! They're waiting at home for my return... only 11 weeks till i finish my degree now and can get the mini back on the road 8)

Chris

[Pete_H]

Bargain!

I'm after a set of injectors at the moment. There are some more 3000gt injectors on ebay.
What colour are the ones you have got?

I did a bit of research and people say that the standard injectors are ok for up to 180bhp. Does that mean you are going for more that that?

I heard that impreza and evo injectors are a straight swap too.

Not sure what to go for yet...Will prob set mine up with standard injectors for now.

[pickup76]

I'm not entirely sure what colour they are as i havent seen them with my own eyes but i think i remember dad saying they are brown stripe. I confirmed with the seller that they are infact the twin turbo inp-014, BDL 360 type.

Well i didnt really have a target value for bhp but i'm definitely not trying to make massive power (not whilst i still have the mini based subframe and 10" wheels anyway :twisted:) . I was going to try 0.4 bar to start with and maybe run up to 0.6 bar if i felt like a bit more.
I started mapping at 0.4 bar originally and mapped all the way up to 5500 but then i hit the ceiling of the injectors. I have no idea what bhp that was but it was hugely fast and massivly more so than NA
So then i went down to 0.3 bar which is my lowest boost and i still ran out of injectors before 6000. Its not ideal to run injectors at over 80% anyway so definitely new injectors.

I've also heard people say that 180bhp is fine on standard injectors but then alot of people seem to be doing that in conjunction with higher fuel pressure. I'm happy with my fuel system at the moment and dont really want to have to go into modifying fuel rails for adjustable regulators so an injector swap seemed the easiest.

Chris

[MarkLD]

Hi Chris

I've got a couple more questions, hope you don't mind :imstupid:

What are you using for a dump valve? I assume its the black cylinder mounted off the T section silicon hose, is it a recirculating valve and venting back into the air inlet hose? Does having the dump valve so far away from the TB cause problems?
I would like to fit a recirculating one by the plenum but don't really want the hassle of feeding yet another pipe back to the rear of the car, what do you recon, vent to atmosphere?

Thanks for any help you can give, its been invaluable so far :D

Mark

[pickup76]

Hi Mark,

I'm using a saab 9000 recirculating bov on mine as it was only a couple of pounds off ebay. It is indeed the black cylinder mounted off a tee just after the turbo and its feeding back between the filter and turbo inlet.
I went for the recuirclating type out of personal preferance as i've had cars with vent to atmosphere type bov before and the noise grated on me after a very short period. My recirculating valve sounds like a wrc fluttering away 8) and its alot quieter (although still clearly audible).
Main reason why i went for a rear mount bov is becaue its alot easier to run the 6mm silicone tube from the inlet side of the throttle to the bov at the rear than a 25mm pipe for the bov recirculation to the filer at the rear but if you're going vent to atmosphere then that isnt an issue. After running the water/oil feed and returns as well as the power for the pump it wasnt a biggy running the extra little pipe to the rear bov and its worth in imho just to run a recirculating type.

Hope that helps :D

Chris

[MarkLD]

Fantastic help again Chris, off to Ebay we go :D

Mark

[pickup76]

Its been a while so i thought it was time for a little update.

Since finishing uni in july i've done a total front end rebuild on the mini and neatened up all the wireing which after a few teething problems, has resulted in a pretty reliable car up untill today.

I've been running about 6psi on the stock engine and its seriously quick. I am getting the hang of the torque steer aswell which is meaning i can be a bit more agressive with the loud pedle :cool:

Today i've had the head gasket fail though which is a bit annoying but i guess as its a stock engine with what looks like the original head gasket (1989) i fugure i've been lucky up till now.

As usuall any breakdown allows more modification and more speed so i'm thinking about lowing the compression whilst the head is off so i can run a bit more boost (alot more boost)

Does anyone have any experience with decompression plates?
I'm thinking of running an alloy plate and two headgaskets so get the compression down to maybe 8.5 or 9:1 but i'm not sure on details yet.

Heres a few pics of it at the moment:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/P16-09-09_1639.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/P16-09-09_163902.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/P16-09-09_1635.jpg

Chris

[MattG]

i would go with vitari pistons ( check with "hayling mini" ) instead of a compresion plate ...

but ask jerry .. he knows more .. all depends on how much power you want

Matt

[Hayling mini]

A decompression plate will be the cheap option depending on how much boost you want to run. How long it would last is an unknown though. If you want to run big boost & be safe it will cost you. I would recommend Vitara Pistons, ARP bolts, O ring the block & get a head gasket from DMW Dave in OZ. Then you need to overbore the block, you probably wont get much change out of £1,000 by the time its done. I would also recommend forged rods if you are going over 20PSI & of course a stand alone ECU.
Try the decompression plate, wind up the boost & see how long it lasts. If you stuff the block I have a spare & several other people on here do too.

Good luck with it:D

Jerry

[pickup76]

Yeah i agree vitara pistons in a properly built engine would be best but i'm on a tight budget so a £1000 engine isnt an option. I'm already running megasquirt with a wideband so its the budget decompression plate option for me! lol

I'm aiming for 180bhp at the moment but will settle for whatever i end up with at 8psi.

Chris

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

Long time.
Is this what do you mean by BOV next to the battery box with a blue tube with dublee clip?
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Turbo%20Conversion/SP_A0289.jpg

Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

Hi Atchi,

Yes thats the resurculating blow off valve next to the battery box. Much quieter than the atmospheric type :)

Chris

[MarkLD]

Hi Chris

Sorry to hear about your head gasket failure, hope you get it sorted soon.
I'm running a decompression plate and two head gaskets on mine, due to money constaints, and so far it has been OK (about 600 hard miles), will have to see how long it lasts though. I'm running about 10psi, will have to see if I can wind on a bit more boost at some time.

Mark

[pickup76]

Hi Mark,

Glad to hear your setup is still working well! I was impressed by the power figures you posted, must be awesome to drive.

I did alot of reading last night and theres seems to be a split of decompression plate users, some using two head gaskets like you and some running a single gasket between the plate and block, using a high temp sealant between the head and plate.

I'm struggling to see how sealant is going to cut it in this use but then again i can see that running two gaskets is going to increase the weak point.

Why did you go for two gaskets Mark and what is your plate made from?

Cheers
Chris

[MarkLD]

Hi Mark,

Glad to hear your setup is still working well! I was impressed by the power figures you posted, must be awesome to drive.

I did alot of reading last night and theres seems to be a split of decompression plate users, some using two head gaskets like you and some running a single gasket between the plate and block, using a high temp sealant between the head and plate.

I'm struggling to see how sealant is going to cut it in this use but then again i can see that running two gaskets is going to increase the weak point.

Why did you go for two gaskets Mark and what is your plate made from?

Cheers
Chris

As you said, I didn't fancy the idea of sealant and one gasket, I thought the two gaskets had a better chance of sealing.
I think the plate is mild steel but I didn't take much notice as I bought it pre-cut off of ebay, did a very quick compression calc to check it was in the right ballpark and just chucked it on:p

Mark

[miniswift]

Hi Chris,

I think I'm :confused: here.
How do you adjust psi on your setup?
Your BOV is it adjustable or fixed?
I hear many people running at 7-8psi then increased to much higher, but how!?

I'm going in between turbo and supercharger. But in both cases, I would like to have a dry sump system. Would I need BOV for a supercharger?

Cheers
Atchi

[pickup76]

Atchi i think you need to read up on the theory of turbocharger systems! :p The BOV doesnt control boost, it just vents pressure differential across the throttle. This is to stop compressor surge when the throttle is closed whilst the turbo is boosting.
Boost levels are controlled by the wastegate which is a seperate thing. I'm running a 4psi wastegate combined with a bleed valve which "tricks" the wastegate into staying closed longer so i get more than 4psi. The bleed valve is adjustable so i can run as much boost as i want. I'll change to an 8psi wastegate when i get the compression down.

Mark: I think i'll go with a two gasket setup too but i'm not having much luck finding a reasonably priced off the shelf plate so i think i'll just get laserman to cut one for me (should be much cheaper) I'm thinking two 1.25 gaskets and a 0.8 plate which should give me a compression drop to 8:1 8-). Now if it stops raining i can wip the head off lol

Chris

[Spiyda]

Hi Chris,

I think I'm :confused: here.
How do you adjust psi on your setup?
Your BOV is it adjustable or fixed?
I hear many people running at 7-8psi then increased to much higher, but how!?

I'm going in between turbo and supercharger. But in both cases, I would like to have a dry sump system. Would I need BOV for a supercharger?

Cheers
Atchi

Atchi,

Our plan for the supercharger is to put a 1.5" butterfly in a pipe that bypasses the charger.
Cable operated we will have the choice of manual control or linking it to the throttle linkage.
Going to use either an old SU butterfly or a gash throttle body

fully open, boost will be zero at low throttle and low at WOT
fully closed, full boost all the way
part open, no boost at low throttle but almost full boost at WOT

just got to get on and finish building :-)


Chris

[pickup76]

Stripped the engine down today and it all looks pretty good. I've never done more that taken the cam cover off this engine so i was a bit anxious as to what i'd see. The clock on the doner car was at 45,000 (i wasnt sure this was correct) but judging by the engine wear or lack of its bang on. Looks totally mint!

Guess which cylinder the waters been leaking into...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/P22-10-09_1420.jpg

Stripped
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/Pickup76/Tenby/P22-10-09_141901.jpg

Chris

[Spiyda]

Stripped the engine down today and it all looks pretty good. I've never done more that taken the cam cover off this engine so i was a bit anxious as to what i'd see. The clock on the doner car was at 45,000 (i wasnt sure this was correct) but judging by the engine wear or lack of its bang on. Looks totally mint!

Chris

that rear steel water pipe doesn't go as far into the water pump as ours ..
the metal tab on ours all almost touches the water pump body when the pipe is in right ...

Is the head flat ? any idea why the gasket went ?

[pickup76]

Are any of your engines mk1? Maybe they changed it for mk2/3 as i've had nothing but trouble with mine leaking.

Havent cheaked the head yet but recon it'll be fine. Never been overheated whilst i've had it.

I think the gasket failed because of age and extra stress from the forced induction. The gasket is quite swolen round the water galleries and coolant has clearly been creaping up inside the gasket.

I've just finished drawing up the gasket in catia so i'm going to mail that over to laserman now and get a quote for a decomp plate. Is anyone else interested in one whilst i'm at it?

Chris

[Spiyda]

Are any of your engines mk1? Maybe they changed it for mk2/3 as i've had nothing but trouble with mine leaking.

Havent cheaked the head yet but recon it'll be fine. Never been overheated whilst i've had it.

I think the gasket failed because of age and extra stress from the forced induction. The gasket is quite swolen round the water galleries and coolant has clearly been creaping up inside the gasket.

I've just finished drawing up the gasket in catia so i'm going to mail that over to laserman now and get a quote for a decomp plate. Is anyone else interested in one whilst i'm at it?

Chris
If you mean that rear metal pipe leaking, we had some problems, but fixed them by bending the bracket at an angle so that the pipe went in until the small tab touches the pump housing... also, a new O ring, and a smear of silicon gasket goo.

Pete may well correct me, but we have had both MK1 and MKII engines in :-)

[pickup76]

Yeah i meant the water rail, i went with the new o ring and smear of silicone too :lol:

Chris

[Spiyda]

Yeah i meant the water rail, i went with the new o ring and smear of silicone too :lol:

Chris

It's a bu**r to get to when the manifold is on too :)