View Full Version : Dying power????
Hi all,
Been driving my B16 mini for a couple of days now, but I can't seem to find a rev limit. Geoff told me it will hit 8,800 when the shift light comes on, but after 8,000 the power seems to die off?? It's running on DTA, mapped by Geoff Watson. Has anyone experienced this before?
Thanks
Joe
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79
for details
Colin.ab
27-02-2004, 11:00 AM
Joe,
You need to speak to Steve Greenald at:
Track 'N'Road Performance / Race Engine Calibration
Unit 9 Noakes Industrial Estate
New Road
Rainham Essex
RM13 9EB
Tel
01708 869 189
07774 773 824
Just off the M25 near the Dartford Bridge J2
Best to try him on his moble first, as when hes mapping a car he doesnt hear the phone.
He has maps for Darren's 1600, Tony's Type R and my Type R in his laptop
Take some cakes, and be prepaired to make lots of Tea!
It will take about 4 hours to do, The money is well spent, as you'll feel like your driving a different car.
Be sure to use Shell Optimax the engine will be mapped to the petrol that is in your car at the time, and it does make a difference which pertol you use, so use only BP Ultimate or Shell Optimax for best performance.
C.ab
- How's the wheels look on the car BTW?
He also did Andy Bell(dinger) 1.6vtec as well
Joe,
You need to speak to Steve Greenald at:
Track 'N'Road Performance / Race Engine Calibration
Unit 9 Noakes Industrial Estate
New Road
Rainham Essex
RM13 9EB
Tel
01708 869 189
07774 773 824
Just off the M25 near the Dartford Bridge J2
Best to try him on his moble first, as when hes mapping a car he doesnt hear the phone.
He has maps for Darren's 1600, Tony's Type R and my Type R in his laptop
Take some cakes, and be prepaired to make lots of Tea!
It will take about 4 hours to do, The money is well spent, as you'll feel like your driving a different car.
Be sure to use Shell Optimax the engine will be mapped to the petrol that is in your car at the time, and it does make a difference which pertol you use, so use only BP Ultimate or Shell Optimax for best performance.
C.ab
- How's the wheels look on the car BTW?
Hi Colin, thanks for the contact that's just what I was after :-)
Is it expensive for that??
Oh yeah, the wheels look pure beautiful!! I'm trying to whack a little gallery up so you can see it soon!
Best give him a call, as his prices might have changed since I was there.
C.ab
Had a chat with Steve at lunchtime, lovely chap! Going up there next week which is something to look forward to! :)
Thanks for the help :wink:
Had a chat with Steve at lunchtime, lovely chap! Going up there next week which is something to look forward to! :)
Thanks for the help :wink:
From what I hear it'll be worth every penny. :D
I'm planning to get him to do mine once its built and thats means a round ferry trip from Jersey because his reputation is so good !!! :D
TonyWells
01-03-2004, 08:50 PM
yeah its worth the money. it really makes the car quicker and more drivable.
its funny to think that steve will have tuned about 6 honda minis, how many other tuners could say that?
yeah its worth the money. it really makes the car quicker and more drivable.
Crazy to think it can get better, it eats 03 Civic R's anyway!!!!(well, up to about 90, but that's soon to change!)
TonyWells
02-03-2004, 12:00 PM
Joe
when are you getting your car tuned?
steves is not too far from me. i might be able to pop down for a chat.
i also need to get steve to tune my minivan
Joe
when are you getting your car tuned?
steves is not too far from me. i might be able to pop down for a chat.
i also need to get steve to tune my minivan
Hi Tony,
I'm going there on the 11th, a week on Thursday (which is Steve's birthday!), would be nice to meet a fellow 16valver!
Am I right in thinking J30 of the M25??
Joe
TonyWells
02-03-2004, 02:29 PM
yeah off at juntion 30 from the m25, then down the a13 towards london. then come off on the a1360 towards rainham. (i think. best check streetmap.co.uk or something to make sure)
his place is on your left next to a caravan place (theres a phone box by the entrence).
im sure if you get lost steve will help you out.
tony
hELLO jOE,
Steve is top man for getting the set up right . Cant agree more with the other guys, money well spent. Give Steve my regards as i only work a mile up the road.
Try not to worry when they do the final power run as it actually sounds like its going to explode at any minute !!! so look the other way.....
might even pop along to say hello if i get time.
Good luck
Andy
hELLO jOE,
Steve is top man for getting the set up right . Cant agree more with the other guys, money well spent. Give Steve my regards as i only work a mile up the road.
Try not to worry when they do the final power run as it actually sounds like its going to explode at any minute !!! so look the other way.....
might even pop along to say hello if i get time.
Good luck
Andy
Thanks Andy!
Yeah I can imagine, it sounds like it's revving hard enough at 7500, which is about where it goes to at the moment, let alone 8800 or 9! ouch!
Would be good to see you though if you're in the area next Thursday! :)
MattG
10-03-2004, 08:13 AM
are you still on for the RR tomorow then ?
Matt
Hi Matt,
With any luck, when I did the damage to my wishbone I cancelled the appointment with Steve, but car will be running again tonight so hopefully he'll be able to squeeze me in still, but I won't know till this afternoon unfortunately
Just spoke to Steve, still going up tomorrow for about 10:30 if any fancies saying hi, my car will just have odd wheels! :oops:
Will have to see if Joanne can answer the phone in the morning and then will come if okay Darren
Colin.ab
10-03-2004, 04:33 PM
Joe,
What engine and brakes did you opt for in the end?
If you can eat CTR's now, you'll be ballistic after mapping... watch the speedo needle on Steve's RR when it goes off the scale to 130+ scary stuff!
C.ab
(Aston Chaser)
Colin,
I used a B16A engine and the standard brakes Geoff supplies on the conversion.
My VTEC solenoid has been unplugged since I got the car however, as I didn't know what VTEC was suposed to sound like, so as you can probably imagine, I've already gone through 5 sets of pants in one evening...
Absolutely unbelievable! Only 147Bhp which was less than I was expecting, but awesome performance now!
BassAddict
12-03-2004, 10:06 AM
Only 147Bhp which was less than I was expecting, but awesome performance now!
How much was it when you managed to damage the wheel ?! Sure it'll be plenty for now Joe !!!! :lol: Glad its all tuned a running well !!
Are you going to any of the forthcoming track / drag days now then ?!!!
Rich
Yeah it's 147 at the flywheel, about 110 at the wheels, not sure why it's a bit underpowered, it could be to breathing problems as I need a much colder air supply for it, I reckon that'll also make a lot of difference, unless anyone has some other suggestions....
PaulAmes
12-03-2004, 10:42 AM
yeh - I would be a bit miffed at 147 at the FlyW - I mean there is no cataylist on there is there, its a better breathing exhaust, and surely the air intake is better than standard. Hot air wont make that much difference will it?!
MattG
12-03-2004, 10:44 AM
not this time of the year anyway ,
did he just do a power run only ? or did he spend time tuning it ?
I assume the VTEC is not active ?
Matt
Hi
Yeah he spent about 4hours tuning it, and that's 147 with VTEC, it's only 13Bhp under but that's gotta be somewhere! he (steve) reckoned the power loss was due to 'breathing problems'
I'm not sure really what do you think the best thing is to do?? :( :? :shock: Every so often you can hear a very slight 'buzz' noise from the area of the dta when the vtec kicks in, this normal?
It's about 108Bhp atw also....... With 108lbsft, which sounds about right for the torque yes?...
MarkLD
12-03-2004, 11:13 AM
Hi Joe
From looking at your gallery I would get rid of the foam filter as they have a tendency to rob power (yours also looks abit squashed). A remote filter with a good cold air intake should help out. Perhaps a filter on top of the servo and cold air feed from the wheelarch? or 180 deg bend out of the plenum and filter by the wiper motor with cold air feed from a pipe from around the cambelt end of the engine?
Mark
Thanks for that Mark, ok I'll give that a go, the wheelarch air flow one sounds like a good idea, just need to get some pipes for it!
Would it also help blocking off the vacuum pipes? As they are currently not blocked off so theoretically that creates an air leak???
Joe
MarkLD
12-03-2004, 11:32 AM
Yeah block off the vacuum pipes aswell and I would vent the breather into a catch tank if you have room for one :lol: I assume it goes to the airfilter as standard
Cars looking good Joe, bet you can't wait for the summer, sunshine and some dry roads
Mark
Yes that's right, I'll do that also, you never know it might make all the difference!!
Yeah tell me about it, I really can't wait till this summer, it's gonna be super duper fun!!!! 8)
Colin.ab
13-03-2004, 08:10 AM
Nice one Joe.
Steve knows his stuff with the DTA.
The buzzing noise or like a chattering is the solanoid making the vtec system work, I get this on my mini if it is just on the vetec swap over point.
or is the noise coming from the DTA box? have a friend listen or hold the unit to find out.
What speed did you see on his RR speedo?
does it feel much better at low down revs?
C.ab
Hi Colin,
I'll look into where that buzzing is coming from, I think the speed on the RR was about 97Mph, I'll have to look at the graph again though when I get home
I had an interesting chat to geoff watson on the phone this morning about my power...
We were talking about when he did the conversion, and the only thing that's different on mine to all the others he's done, is that mine still has the original exhaust on, which is a huge oval centre exit back box, which causes a lot of bubbling on over run, so I'm going to start with trying a normal back box to see if this makes a noticeable difference.
This also ties up with Track 'n' road performance, as Steve Greenald said that any loss of power would probably be to breathing problems, so I think this is my first port of call!
Joe
Filter is now getting loads of cold air, but the next thing is to change the rear box, just need to weld a bracket on it to fit it.
I think the main thing that's annoyign is the power atw, as mine is about 110Bhp, whereas others appear to be 140 odd, which is one heck of a lot of power lost from the wheels, this should make quite a noticable difference to the performance of it, but you would think the loss difference would be the same as everyone else, but 160Bhp atw compared to 140 odd at the flywheel is around a 20Bhp difference, whereas on mine, with 147Bhp and 110Bhp atw, I'm losing 30 odd + hp.
Why should I start with less and still lose more?
oh..... so confusing, I'm well happy witht the car, but if it's got another 30Bhp lying around, I WANNA USE IT!!!!!
Dont worry about the flywheel figure as this is an estimate, worry about the wheel figure.
As a rough guide you take the at the wheels figure divide it by 0.9 and then add 12 to this figure to get at the flywheel figure.
ie. 110/0.9 = 122 + 12 = 134 HP at the flywheel.
When I was at Steves rolling road it only measured at the wheels anyway.
Your at the wheels figure is low, but if you have the wrong flow exhaust on it then it could be killing the engine at high revs/flow
Yeah I think this may be the root of the mystery, as I said in a previous post Geoff said this is the only different thing on mine compared to everyone else's.. But at the miniworld455 show I noticed minimivic's exhaust is pretty big, but I guess it depends on the size of the box not the tailpipe...
I'll let you know how I get on with the standard exhaust
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