Non-Vtec Honda Engines - Power / Availability / Cost etc...

[DaveCoxon]

When my missus broke the gearbox in her 1275, i got her a metro GTi 16v to drive round in whilst i sorted hers. Now, (of course!) she wants her mini back, but with 5 gears and the same (or more!) power than the GTi, but fuel injection for economy.

A Vtec is out, as 150hp is far more than she needs, but i think something around 110 / 120hp would be good. As The honda lump allows the original brake master cyl to remain, has alloy block and is pretty reliable, this sounds ideal to me.

I'm guessing the non-Vtec 1600 lumps are around 115hp? What are they fitted to? Single or twin cam? I really don't know, so please tell me!

Dave

[BassAddict]

This is for USDM motors, but might be useful..
http://www.604civicclub.com/tech/enginelist.html
I'll try and find more info on the UK engines !
Rich

[MattG]

Hi Dave ,

if you are open to sugestions how about a 1.6 vauxhall engine , using the Allspeed subframe :

http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=519

you did not say if you wife had a std nose or clubman (the car that is :lol: )

if its a std the frame will allow you to fit the engine in there with no lengthing. will give you the rough power you want and 5 speed gearbox

just a thought

Matt

Dave,

The cheapest way is to get hold of a rover pre 95 216/416 you can get them from e-bay for pennys! some of the GTis were fitted with the D16a6 Dohc lump as fitted to the CRX (130 bhp) or the GSis were fitted with the single cam Da16a9 engine (110 bhp).

I got a 1991 Rover 416 gsi recently for £50 with 87,000 miles and 9 months mot! I'll use it till the ticket runs out, then the engine and gearbox is going in my M*tro.

[DaveCoxon]

hmm, where'd my post go?

ok, i'll answer again!

Roundnose - but probably GRP to stop the tinworm
Contacted Rob Hall, just enquiring bout the Vtec - but it will be going in a modified standard frame whatever - this has to be done on a budget
Never knew the 216GTI was a 130hp honda engine
Is this oriented the same way as the VTEC - ie gearbox in front of driver?
I'm guessing these also use the RoverMEMS ECU?

And this of course means the Valver estate is delayed even more... oh well! :(

[strudel]

An 86-89 Acura Integra will suit your HP needs. 86-87 brown top has 113HP and the 88-89 black top has 118HP. If you can find a JDM version you will be at 130HP. In NA they are very inexpensive to pick up.

The one problem with these is the timing side engine mount. Needs to be reworked to fit under the wing properly or it intrudes onto the headlight bezel area.

The other engine, if you can get it, is the 88-91 Crx/Civic JDM ZC black top @130HP. Standard style mounts. All are non-VTEC. JS

[Oz]

Am I being thick here or something, you want a cheap conversion, you have a Metro GTi sitting around ... hello !!!

Watsons do a frame for the K series for £700 virtually the rest is in the Metro including wheels !! Geehawk will correct me if I'm wrong but either a single or twin master cylinder will fit, if you want a servo, remote fit one (to the front circuit only on a twin cylinder).

Its not expensive to get a set of front wings modded to +90mm.

Seems the obvious way to go to me !

[evolotion]

rover 216/416 wil give you what u want as stated above. only problem is not all of them were honda engined, wel from what i gathered. No idea what date they changed over, but you could jsut hunt for one and look under the bonet.

[DaveCoxon]

I like the K personally, but it does have it's problems and as for that gearbox... It's almost as long and wide as a Ford MT75, but can only take around half the torque it seems...

I'm also not into lengthning it. Minis were made that length and i'm not about to change that.

BTW - What is an Acura???

Engine mounts are not a concern - these can go wherever is needed!

Off into the gallery i go!

D

Dave

the rover 216/416 is basically a Honda Concerto/civic ! all the electrics are honda..rover sussed that was a honda strong point! Rovers main imput into the car was the front suspension and the european styling!

I think..(but correct me if I'm wrong) the Rover used a slightly taller final drive.

I'm learning here too!

[strudel]

Dave, The Acura Integra is an upscale Honda similar to the Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infinity brands. Just an upscale branding. Cars are usually more luxurious and cost more. Engine still has Honda written on the valve cover. JS

[Geehawk]

416/216 went from Honda to K series at around 'P' reg. When the 'bubble' shape 200/400 came in. So you need to look for the old shape ones to get a Honda unit.

K gearbox is wide, but it fits quite happily. And as GTMKoupe (and others) have proven will fit in an unextended roundnose using a modded Mini frame.

As to gearbox strength. Swap the 1.4 for a 1.6 box/clutch which loses the bonded diff and most of the problems. If youre only after GTi power, plus a bit ,then huge torque figures wont come into play.

Graham

[DaveCoxon]

This being the same (130hp) D16 engine as in the honda?

I'm still awaiting somone confirming that the Rover 216 used the Honda gearbox orientation - ie with the gearbox in front of the driver... Anyone able to tell me if this is the case :roll: ?

D

Dave

yeah the gearbox is the same as the honda, in fact my Rover 416 engine looks exactly like the one in strudels van!

I'm building my own frame too, and I'm gonna try to get it into a standard round front first, so when it goes into the clubby I'll have plenty of room between the exhaust and the rad!

then again...might just leave it in the round front...panels are cheaper!

Gaz

Dave

Just found this pic of a Rover 216/416 Gsi engine bay.

http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/01/50/6c/c8_3.JPG

The years you want are 1990>95. This is the SOHC Honda lump rated in the brochure as 115bhp. 0-60 in 10 secs top speed 120mph. The car ran 185/60/tyres and did 70mph at 3800rpm. Hope this is useful.

Gaz

[Richard]

K gearbox is wide, but it fits quite happily. And as GTMKoupe (and others) have proven will fit in an unextended roundnose using a modded Mini frame.


Graham

Thats right,
You have to do a bit of work but it is possible for a K series in a standard length mini. Can give more info if needed.

Were currently changing the oil filter situation, making a remote filter to stop leaks.
It should hopefully be almost ready for long term use soon.

Richard and Mike

[Pete D16]

Dave,

I'm some way in to converting std subframe for use in std round nose using Honda D16A9 (130 bhp, black top twin cam, equal length driveshafts). I first tried with a K series 1.4 Gti but gave up... gearbox interferes badly with NS tower/top arm, oil filter location is a problem.
Also, injection manifold would interfere with Brake/clutch M/cylinders.

Getting on better with the Honda... i think its better packaged for std nose conversion, the starter motor and oil filter are more favourably positioned and ancilliares are neater/smaller.

It's not all good news though, the diff unit will contact the RHD steering rack before the engine is ideally positioned and injection manifold or bulkhead mods (ala ringmini) are required.

There, thats my twopenny worth, hope it helps.

[BassAddict]

Dave,
Sent you an email with all the Honda Concerto info of engine numbers, if you want the full Honda Concerto workshop manual go to :
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/ConcertoManual/index.html

This should have some info !

Rich

[Richard]

I'm some way in to converting std subframe for use in std round nose using Honda D16A9 (130 bhp, black top twin cam, equal length driveshafts). I first tried with a K series 1.4 Gti but gave up... gearbox interferes badly with NS tower/top arm, oil filter location is a problem.
Also, injection manifold would interfere with Brake/clutch M/cylinders.



I know your not doing it anymore but this is how we got round those problems.

With the NS tower/toparm, we cut off the bolt and aptive welded in place.
If look at my gallery we have added some pice of the newly finished remote oil filter. This caused some prblems to start with, but this latest design looks good.
We had no trouple with the injectors. Seems to fit perfectly!

Mike and Richard