fuel pump

hi all

i have just finished putting my swift gti enginein my mini , still loads to do, i didnt know what fuel pump to use?

and do you have to change the lines or is the standard fuel pipe ok?

thanks

[sean]

I used the orginial GTI fuel pump and mounted it into the mini tank.

I also ran the original GTI fuel supply pipe and used the original mini line for the return.

[Jimbo]

I used the orginial GTI fuel pump and mounted it into the mini tank.

I also ran the original GTI fuel supply pipe and used the original mini line for the return.

If you use the mini tank, you will probably get airbubbels in the gasoline were the returnpipe in mounted...the mini tank is not build for a returnpipe...rebuild the back of the mini and put the swifttank there instead...

thats my opinion... :lol:

[ChadH]

the mini tank is not build for a returnpipe...
Does that include the injection fuel tank with the built in return pipe? I'm really not sure what to do with my fuelling. I've got an MPI tank with a 3 bar mini fuel pump - some people think this'll be OK, and some don't.

Can anyone recommend a nice easy 'plug and play' solution that's available to me in the UK.

[sean]

There is no problems with air bubbles when using the mini tank and GTI pump.

You will need to remove and weld up the mini return pipe fitting in the tank as the GTI pump has provisions on it for both the supply and return.

It's a simple case of cutting a hole in the right side of the tank and welding on the flange from the top of the GTI tank to accept the pump.

I also adapted the GTI fuel gauge sender unit to the mini sender float so the GTI gauge in the instrument cluster would read correctly. This is only required if you are fitting the Suzuki dash.

mmmmm, that all kind of screws me up as the car is now scrap and i didnt get the fuel pump,lines and sender,

thats for the ideas. if you have any more please let me know.

[GTi_Clubby]

hey, i used a VL commodore fuel pump.. got a length of 8mm fuel line off a VT commo, mounted the pump under the boot floor, next to the rear subframe, braised a 8mm peice of the same fuel line a few inches up the side of the tank for the return.. used original mini as return..

easy peasy.. 8)

[FatKev]

easy peasy.. <-- whats up with you australians and that term! The chap making the 16v Mini engine using the BMW K1100 motorbike cylinderhead uses it all the time :?

BTW why would the SPi and MPi tanks cause air bubbles?! They work fine on injected Minis. :shock:

Kevin

[Purtsi]

Let's bring the old topic back up =)

I have this same dilemma about what fuel tank or pump to use when the time comes. Current situation is that I have normal 'big' mini tank and external pump. And yes, I still have the a-series engine.

Idea is to get (at some point) over 120hp from the g13b engine so I don't want to fuel to run out. Soooo....

The question is: what's the simpliest (and cost effective hehe) way to get the fueling sorted? Just a note, I can get all the necessary parts from the donor suzuki if needed. Oh, and I won't install the suzi tank to mini :)

1. Should I use a MPi tank? I should get a price of used one next week.
2. External pump and return pipe to old tank (is it possible without welding??)
3. ??

[spNOam]

There is no problems with air bubbles when using the mini tank and GTI pump.

You will need to remove and weld up the mini return pipe fitting in the tank as the GTI pump has provisions on it for both the supply and return.

It's a simple case of cutting a hole in the right side of the tank and welding on the flange from the top of the GTI tank to accept the pump.

I also adapted the GTI fuel gauge sender unit to the mini sender float so the GTI gauge in the instrument cluster would read correctly. This is only required if you are fitting the Suzuki dash.

I just plugged the mini fuel outlet from the (small) tank & used the suzuki pump & flange. Cost effective & efficient.

http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11822&start=0

[Purtsi]

Did you just cut the hole into the fuel tank and screwed the pump to it? At least that looks to be so from the picture.. :?:

[spNOam]

Cut the hole in the tank, used the flange from the suzuki on the inside as the holes are already threaded, made a another flange for the outside, gaskets between each joint & bolted it all together. Works a treat (no welding)

[Purtsi]

OK, that seems to be good option :)

[Spiyda]

Having bought an MPI tank with a duff pump (nothing in the ebay listing to say the pump was working) It was a VERY simple job to remove the internal pump and fit the Suzuki one in it's place.

One advantage of the MPI tank over fitting a pump in the side of a old tank, is that you can change the pump with a full tank of petrol :-)

[Purtsi]

The MPI tank would be the cleanest option but maybe the most expensive too. For some reason I'm not so keen to cut the hole into existing tank because of the sparks and possibility to get it on fire.

[Spiyda]

Discovered that the Suzuki pump we fitted into the MPI tank is a low pressure one :(

so its coming out and a Toyota Supra Turbo pump is going in in it's place :)

[Welder]

Hi there!

What is wrong with The Facet electrical race pump: SS503 or the fast road version:SS502
They can be a bit noisy, but you won't hear it with al that enginenoise! :lol:

Jasper

[Purtsi]

I actually have that street version (ss502) in my current setup but I've heard from someone that it would be good only up to something like 100hp?? does anyone know better? Oh, and you'd still need to make that return pipe when using this pump with fuel injection.. right?

[Welder]

This will give you a proper answer:

http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/web-facet.pdf

[Purtsi]

That's a good link, thanks :)

I better check the pump model next time I visit the garage. According to that sheet the fast road pump should be more than adequate for way over 100bhp.

[speedy]

hey guys...

if you are going for carbs,the facet is good pump...
not if your going injection... you need a pressurepump.

[Welder]

Thank you for this comment!

:!:

Learned (again) on this Forum!

[Purtsi]

hey guys...

if you are going for carbs,the facet is good pump...
not if your going injection... you need a pressurepump.

Umm.. what's the difference between these?

[speedy]

for injection you need pressure for the injectors.
this needs to be about 2,5 bar at idle .
the pump is much stronger then a pump for carbs
the regulator makes the pressure with help of a little vacuum...

you do not need a pump in the tank,you can take a pump from a opel or something. that is not in the tank ,but then you need a swirlpot.

i hope this helps a little.

[Purtsi]

That explained a lot, thanks :)

[speedy]

:lol: okay... that's good to read...

[sigmacon]

I used a bosch pump from a porsche 914. There are lots of good bosch pumps availible at a reasonable price ( make sure it's one for a fuel injected application.
I then had a return line welded to the standard mini tank. The pump mounts to the subframe under the tank along with a filter.
I have had no issues in thousands of miles.

[Purtsi]

Let's pull this topic up once again =)

What kind of filters and pressure regulators you have used if any when using outside tank mounted pump? At the moment I'm moving towards the fuel pump that is located outside the tank like this one and then just making the hole for the return pipe in to the tank:

http://www.jegs.com/i/MSD/121/2225/10002/-1

Or can I use the breather pipe as a return line?

But then I'll need the filters and other stuff.. which ones exactly is the question here... :? As I'm going to use the original fuel rail and it has some sort of regulator in it, that should be enough (and ofcourse some sort of filter before the pump?)? Am I just answering to my own questions here?? :lol:

[speedy]

that is a nice looking pump...

i think it is best you make a swirlpot, that way the pump will not run dry
if your tank is allmost empty and you are in long fast corner..
that can take your feed from the tank , and the from the return and feed
the pump. i used to make them for not injected cars that were going to be
you can use a normal filter from a injected astra or something...

hope that this clears it up a little?

[Purtsi]

ummm... swirlpot?? Me not understand? :oops:

Would it be enough if i promise that I won't let the tank go almost empty when driving? ;)

*sorry for misunderstanding things as it's late saturday evening and i'm not so sober that i could be...* :lol:

[speedy]

and now you have a hangover?? :)

it is just a little tank between your tank and the fuelpump.
whit on one side a inlet from the tank,and on the other side a outlet to
your pump and a return from the engine...

but if you promise to keep it full....its okay.. :P

[Purtsi]

and now you have a hangover?? :)


Well, I can't much deny that at the moment :lol:

[Purtsi]

Can someone please confirm that the MPI tank with 3 Bar fuel pump is efficient enough for the 'bit' modified g13b engine? I found one tank that I could buy...

[speedy]

three bar is okay... it really is.... :)

[Purtsi]

three bar is okay... it really is.... :)

That's all I wanted to hear =)

[Purtsi]

well.. I missed that tank by £5... :(

One question though: How can you tell if the fuel pump is for SPI or MPI? How do they differ?

Cheers

[Spiyda]

well.. I missed that tank by £5... :(

One question though: How can you tell if the fuel pump is for SPI or MPI? How do they differ?

Cheers

If you can get an injection type mini tank of any sort, its easy enough to put a better pump into it, the higher pressure pumps (non-mini) are cheap, the tank is not..

We had a duff pump in the MPI tank we bought and ended up buying a Toyota Supra pump as it was cheap..

the Supra pump went straight onto the pipes inside the tank, just needed a pipe clip to fix it in place.... I bet it only took 1/2 hour

[Purtsi]

well.. I missed that tank by £5... :(

One question though: How can you tell if the fuel pump is for SPI or MPI? How do they differ?

Cheers

If you can get an injection type mini tank of any sort, its easy enough to put a better pump into it, the higher pressure pumps (non-mini) are cheap, the tank is not..

We had a duff pump in the MPI tank we bought and ended up buying a Toyota Supra pump as it was cheap..

the Supra pump went straight onto the pipes inside the tank, just needed a pipe clip to fix it in place.... I bet it only took 1/2 hour

Good information :) I just did a search on finnish spare part site and there were no fuel pumps from Supra but couple of from Celica and prices for those varies from £50 to £90. So not that cheap at all.

It looks like this:

http://www.varaosahaku.fi/index.php?index=default&company_id=&link=pictures&id=3829966 (couldn't link the picture itself)

Btw. Found another MPI tank from ebay but the seller won't send it to Finland :(

[Spiyda]

I think we paid less than £9 for the pump delivered (eBay)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230271733108

If you find a tank at the right price I will gladly receive it and ship it to you, but it will increase the price... shipping twice

Otherwise, you may be able to get a carrier to pick it up and ship direct to you.., or if you can't, maybe I can organise that for you.

maybe somone like parcel2go

http://www.parcel2go.com/service.aspx?serviceid=69


these are similar to the one we fitted to an MPI tank

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-FIESTA-ZETEC-SE-01-Y-reg-IN-TANK-FUEL-PETROL-PUMP_W0QQitemZ350097004639QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 350097004639&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A4|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Subaru-Impreza-Turbo-WRX-STI-GDB-fuel-pump-GC8-upgrade_W0QQitemZ130255092689QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem130255092689&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A4|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

just need to check that they are high enough pressure by looking on the web

[Purtsi]

I think we paid less than £9 for the pump delivered (eBay)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230271733108

If you find a tank at the right price I will gladly receive it and ship it to you, but it will increase the price... shipping twice

Otherwise, you may be able to get a carrier to pick it up and ship direct to you.., or if you can't, maybe I can organise that for you.

maybe somone like parcel2go

http://www.parcel2go.com/service.aspx?serviceid=69


these are similar to the one we fitted to an MPI tank

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-FIESTA-ZETEC-SE-01-Y-reg-IN-TANK-FUEL-PETROL-PUMP_W0QQitemZ350097004639QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 350097004639&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A4|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Subaru-Impreza-Turbo-WRX-STI-GDB-fuel-pump-GC8-upgrade_W0QQitemZ130255092689QQcmdZViewItem?hash=i tem130255092689&_trkparms=39%3A1|66%3A4|65%3A1|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

just need to check that they are high enough pressure by looking on the web

Morning, I think that your nick should be MrGoodInformation ;)

Those fuel pumps are almost free.. awesome. Previously I have bought parts that have been then send to my boss in London who'd then bring those to me in Helsinki but getting the parts may take months that way so it's almost easier to order those directly to Finland.

Next week I should get few other parts via parcel2go/DHL and their fee should be about £25 for package less than 10kg. The fuel tank should come nicely with that service I think. The fuel tank postage within UK seems to be around £10 which isn't bad if I get the tank cheap :)

I'll let you know if I find something that I really really want and the seller wont send it to Finland ;)

Cheers
Purtsi

edit: You really got a bargain with that fuel pump. Cheapest at the moment is £45 in ebay. There are some no-name ones from states for £30+...

edit2: Found few cheap scooby pumps and the mpi tank that I found earlier is actually a spi. But those two would work nicely together ;)

edit3: Does anyone know how much the fuel tank weights with the pump?

btw. Are the fuel lines in spi as big as in mpi?

[Purtsi]

I think that I've found the spi tank for myself. Now, the next question is that should I get the scooby fuel pump or can I use the swift pump instead? Installing swift pump into spi tank shouldn't be any bigger task than installing supra or scooby pump, right?

Too bad that I only got few weekends in a month when I have time to go to garage and can work on this, so I need to ask these simple things from you here... sorry guys! :)

[Domcr250]

My fuel pump went 'fut' on Friday in Tesco's car park! It's the standard Swift GTI one put into a standard mini tank, I went in through the top of the tank, the clever people cut a hole in the side ...flat steel is much easier to weld ...wish I'd spotted that one sooner and you could probably get away with just using the steel mounting plate from the swift tank.

I purchased this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130251941724

for £35, if you take a look at the list of cars it fits some seem to have much greater fuel requirements than the Swift, so I think it will would have enough headroom for a standard or non turbo charged swiftmini.

Dom

[Purtsi]

I was just thinking that installing a 20 year-old fuel pump might be a bad idea and probably will install a newer pump in to the tank instead. I thought about making a hole into the tank and every other option too but since I rather use factory "not messed-up" fuel tank, I got myself that spi tank and hopefully got rid of few problems by doing that :lol: