PDA

View Full Version : hazards and flasher unit


rug
14-04-2008, 08:03 AM
How do you wire the hazard lights? I understand the flasher, but if I look at this diagram, it looks like there are 2 flasher units. One for indicators, and one for the hazards. I only had one flasher unit in my car :) Can one be used for both hazards and indicators?

http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~mdobruck/siililand/mini/diy/6/images/miniwire.gif

Vehicle Wiring lists a few different flasher units. One that have 4x5w hazards, but it still only has 2 pins. Another that says that it doesn't support hazards also has 2 pins. I am confused....

And what's the difference between an electro-mecanical and an electrical flasher unit? (except that the electronic also needs ground)

/Carl

picKup
14-04-2008, 09:27 AM
It can be done with 1 flasher as this is how I have done mine. I needed a 4 way relay as the hazard switch could not turn enough circuits on/off. Also I had to use some diodes to ensure that with the Hazards on the ignition circuit did not become active.

I must admit the way I have done it is probe not the ideal solution by any means but I can try to do a drawing if needed?

bousfield19
14-04-2008, 12:18 PM
hi pickup i am interseted in what you have done here as i am having problems with my hazzards back feeding through my ignition and making my fuel pump relay click

rug
14-04-2008, 02:09 PM
probably doesn't help that I have 6 pins on the back of my hazards button. I thought this thing was just an on/off switch ;)

I get how the indicators work:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/turn-signal-wiring.jpg

I just don't get how the hazards wire into this. (especially now when I see the button has 6 pins...)

Where can I find the pinouts on the style of buttons that are in the Mini? I think many kitcar builders use the same kind of buttons, and I think I even have a westfield button kit laying around somewhere.

/Carl

picKup
14-04-2008, 02:10 PM
I have uploaded a very quick/crap pic of how I think I wired the hazards.

This may/may not be accurate. I am sure I used a secod diode in there but I can not remember where or if it is needed. I am sure someone will point out any errors! (Evolution)

http://www.16vminiclub.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=708&pos=8

PS user a hight power diode with a big heatsink as they do get hot, or lots of smaller ones in parrellel.

Mike

spNOam
14-04-2008, 05:20 PM
Hi,
I resorted to using two flasher units, that is I used a separate flasher unit for the hards.

rug
15-04-2008, 06:34 AM
I will just wire it all with 2 flasher units. That way I can use the Mini wiring diagram I posted earlier.

Where are the flasher units located? I found one in the engine compartment when I took the wiring out, but shouldn't there be 2? Or was the 91 mini just wired with 1?

/Carl

picKup
15-04-2008, 09:04 AM
check these pdf Files:
http://xiaobin.free.fr/PDFs/Mini/MPI/

Mike

rug
15-04-2008, 09:22 AM
check these pdf Files:
http://xiaobin.free.fr/PDFs/Mini/MPI/

Mike

That makes sense, and it only uses one flasher unit. But I would still need a pinout of my hazard switch. If I look at the picture of the hazards and indicators, there are 6 wires coming of it. How is this orientated? Am I looking at the front or the back of the switch when following the wires? (don't think that picture is accurate with pinout...)

/Carl

rug
15-04-2008, 08:10 PM
Ok, so I sat down and tested my hazard switch for continuity. After studying a few diagrams I think I know how this thing should work.

When off, 2 pins should be connected. These are for the regular turn signals to work. When the button is pressed, these 2 pins are disconnected, and the other 4 pins are connected together.

This is my switch:

O O
O O

O O

That's what the pinout looks like from behind. With the switch off (I think it's off) I get no continuity between ANY pins. With it on, I get continuity between all 4 top pins. The 2 lower pins never creates a circuit with any other pin.

Looking at the wiring diagrams, I thought the 2 bottom would be connected when off, and the 4 others connected when on. Are the 2 at the bottom not supposed to be connected when off? Broken switch?
/Carl

picKup
15-04-2008, 09:44 PM
What u described is how my sw works. But now I just use 2 of the 4 at the top to turn on my relay. :)

WanaGo
15-04-2008, 11:40 PM
I have just done mine, with one flasher (3 pins), no relays, no diodes etc...
All you need is the hazard button which when pushed switches 3 poles.

Pin B of the Flasher is connected to the hazard switch, as is normally connected to your ignition power. When the hazard is pushed Pin B conencts to your constant power. Pin L is the output of the flasher, this has no load normally until you switch your indicator stalk, which activates the flasher. Pin L is also connected to the 2 other poles of your hazard switch, so when the hazard button is pushed it provides power direct to your indicators.
Pin E of the flasher is to ground.

So basically what happens is when the hazard switch is deactivated, power is provided to the flash units Pin B via the hazard switch, and the indicators are activated by switching the load onto pin L of the hazard switch, for left and right accordingly. When indicators are off, there is no load on pin L, so the flasher unit is deactivated.
When the hazard switch is activated, power is switched onto pin B by the constant power line (fuse direct to battery or what-not), and Pin L is also switched directly onto left and right indicators, bypassing the indicator swtich.

This is how the Factory Honda setup works, it can be seen in the Honda service manuals.

There is no path for power to flow from constant back into your ignition circuit, so no need to worry about your hazards making your ignition live.

Clear as mud?

the difference between the types of flashers you can get is, the older type relies on the output load to determine the speed of the flash I think... whereas the electronic ones flash at a set rate.
this is why you see when someone has an indicator bulb out that their indicators flash faster.... this wont happen on the electronic flashers, from what I can tell.

graemec
16-04-2008, 08:12 AM
The MPi diagrams do show two flasher units - but one is called the Direction Indicator Hazard Warning Unit and is an electronic type as standard. The reason two are run is that you still have hazards if the standard one fails and vice versa.

However by taking the LGK (light green with pink) wire from the hazard unit and connecting it directly to the LGN (light green with brown) input to the indicator switch then only one unit is needed and will work fine (this is how mine is done).

I will come back with the pin outs and wiring connections for the hazard swithc when I have found it again!

WanaGo
16-04-2008, 08:23 AM
Here is what I ment in diagram format, for the more visual among us :)

http://www.taktik.co.nz/Mini/misc/HazardIndicators.jpg

And yes, there are dozens of ways to do this.

graemec
16-04-2008, 08:34 AM
On the standard mini hazard switch there are only the top 4 terminal used for the MPi type arrangement. Looking at the back of the switch the terminals are numbered:
5 4
6 3
7 2
8 1

And the corresponding wire colours are:
3 = LGK
4 = GR
5 = GW
6 = GLG

Using the MPi system, but adpated for one flasher unit, means the IGN circuit is divorced however it also means the indicators will work with the ignition off (the hazards must work with the ignition off).

graemec
16-04-2008, 08:47 AM
With the switch off (I think it's off) I get no continuity between ANY pins. With it on, I get continuity between all 4 top pins. The 2 lower pins never creates a circuit with any other pin.

Looking at the wiring diagrams, I thought the 2 bottom would be connected when off, and the 4 others connected when on. Are the 2 at the bottom not supposed to be connected when off? Broken switch?
/Carl

Your assumptions are right, the bottom two pins should be connected when the switch is off.

On the older wring system these two pins were both connected in the middle of the LGN (light green with brown) link between the older two pin flasher unit and the 'input' side of the indicator switch. The link would be made when the hazard switch was off and broken when the hazard switch was on.

rug
16-04-2008, 09:09 AM
When I look in the heynes manual, I see a diagram for fuel injected models that only use one flasher unit, and a relay for the indicators so they only work with the ignition on. I'll see if I can take a picture of this or scan it...

Your assumptions are right, the bottom two pins should be connected when the switch is off.

I need this to work to wire it like in the heynes manual. But maybe my switch is broken since I get no connection between the two lower pins at any time.

/Carl

graemec
16-04-2008, 10:30 AM
Sorry, my mistake - only one flasher unit and a relay is correct.

However when wired that way you only need the top four pins of the switch as in my post above (pins 3,4,5 & 6). You only need to bring the bottom two into play if you use two flasher units.

If you don't use the indicator relay then it just means the indicators will work with no ignition on - not a big problem and it make the wiring less clutered.

rug
16-04-2008, 10:38 AM
ok, so if I just don't use the lower pins, and get rid of the relay, everything will work, except the indicators will also work when the ignition is off.

Got it :)

Thanks for all the good info!

/Carl

graemec
16-04-2008, 11:47 AM
You can keep the relay if you want to but still only use the top 4 pins if you are using the injection diagram and an electronic flasher unit.

Follow the diagram on the link given above (http://xiaobin.free.fr/PDFs/Mini/MPI/). The pin numbers for the hazard switch are given on the diagram next to each cable (the C96 is the connector number the -? is the pin number on that connector) and the pins on the rear of the switch (looking at the back of the switch) are numbered:
5 4
6 3
7 2
8 1

rug
16-04-2008, 01:53 PM
You can keep the relay if you want to but still only use the top 4 pins if you are using the injection diagram and an electronic flasher unit.

Follow the diagram on the link given above (http://xiaobin.free.fr/PDFs/Mini/MPI/). The pin numbers for the hazard switch are given on the diagram next to each cable (the C96 is the connector number the -? is the pin number on that connector) and the pins on the rear of the switch (looking at the back of the switch) are numbered:
5 4
6 3
7 2
8 1

But you have 8 numbers, and I have 6 round pins ond the back and 2 flat ones on the sides?

/Carl

graemec
16-04-2008, 02:26 PM
Fair point, I took the pin numbers from the plug which has 8 holes! Ignore 7 & 2 and you have the 6 pins you have. You just need 3, 4, 5 & 6 which I put the wire colours up for earlier.

The ones either side are for the internal light. One needs to go to earth, the other gets fed from pin 6, wire colour GLG (Green with Light Green).

rug
16-04-2008, 02:36 PM
Oh yeah, didn't even think that the plug had 8 holes ;)

(The MPI wiring diagram just makes much more sense when knowing what pin goes where)

Thanks again!

/Carl