4x4 mini

[Daveywantsaparty]

Just wondering if this has been done. I know someone mentioned a scooby 4x4 but i'm thinking more of the 4x4 and not which engine to use. Was wondering about getting a fiat panda 4x4 and bastardising the drive shafts etc

Maybe a 2.5 lt VR6 Rover engine or summat mid mounted. This isn 't even a pipe dream, this is a full on drug induced hallucination, but, I wouldn't mind peoples thoughts on the matter. Having not done any work on my mini yet, I sppose asking people who have done conversions is the best way.

So yes, what do people think...

Dave

[Abs]

can email you some pics of a panda 4x4 clubman conversion if you want. PM sent

[redfish0]

Just throwing it out here so feel free to make any comments...

Couldnt you get a normal fwd engine say, a 2.2 prelude vtec or 2.5 omega engine, mid mount it and turn it length ways. Get a limited slip diff installed into the gearbox and run one output to say a scooby diff in the rear and another at the front? It would mean the normal work of mid mounting an engine plus the chopping and sleeving 5 drive shafts, extending one and mounting the diffs.
Is there anything glaringly wrong with this idea?

[pengy666]

there was a 4x4 mini fetured in mini magazine in the summer with a quaife rear diff fitted! it looked ugly as cheese! very special one off jobby worth thousands!

[XEValver]

by 4x4 you mean 4 wheel drive? or "off-roader"?

gotta ask.



EDIT: obviously by off-roader i mean a 4 wheel drive off roader :oops: :lol: Just "4x4" conjures images of Mitsu Pajeros and Disco's and the like.

[Minimivic]

Dont know why anyone would want to build an AWD mini :?

[XEValver]

Dont know why anyone would want to build an AWD mini :?

true...but what would be awesome would be one that is on a golf 4motion floor pan with TT running gear :shock:

[Glenno]

4 x 4 Mini?-I'm sure this little minter will rival most on the road.......and definately off the road....... :wink:
Turbo too.......................... 8)

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Mini/auction-81126242.htm

[jimfai]

achim of ringmini fame has a honda awd set up in his van. you can watch the video of him doing laps on "the ring" if you go to his site.

[FatKev]

jimfai - I think Achim's van is fwd which is what he uses on the Ring. His pick up has the AWD set up which, as far as I know, he doesn't use on the Ring due to a lack of a rollcage. I know this used to be the case but then again things might have changed.

[99fusion]

The guys from miniboost.no have done a turbo 4WD mini with a suziki G13b and a justy (i think) trans... It's pretty cool 8)

Not much technical info on their website, plenty of picks tho and a few videos out there

http://www.miniboost.no/Henrik/index.htm

http://www.miniboost.no/video/index.htm

edit: I think turbovan who frequents this forum is part of the miniboost crew. he might be able to help a bit more...

[ed4ran]

Its the same gearbox im using in mine, only i havent added the rear diff.

[ed4ran]

Heres what it looks like.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gary.heritage1/Pics/swift/09.JPG

[Daveywantsaparty]

Not been on for a while but I was thinking along the lines of scooby and evo awd and not fontera and discovery 4wd. Mid mounted engine powerring all wheels. Gotta be faster off the line etc. I just reckon it would be a laugh. I've not got the technical knowhow to take it further yet.

And I reckon you could do a longditudinal mounted engine and use each driveshaft to drive the front and back, but with the differentials all the power would be fed through to the wheel that has the least grip by my reconing, which wouldn't be great. The panda 4x4 has some way of putting 70% of power to rear wheels and 30% to front, which could be an option. I'm not gonna go this way though, I'm just thinking rwd now...

Dave

[Lofty]

Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but does anyone know what engine and gearbox miniboost's pickup uses.

Im trying to build an awd tarmac mini.
Dave

[evolotion]

no idea but may i suggest you look into the toyota rav-4 running gear? its cheap as chips and the same as a celica gt-four except theres a locking centre diff and will bolt straight up to a 3sgte :) and pretty damn strong too.

[Pete_H]

I think its the justy 4x4. By the way have you seen the video of it crashing? hope it wasnt damaged too badly. Bit of a brown trouser moment. Lucky no one was coming the other way!

[Lofty]

I couldnt find a crash video??

Anyhow, a 3sgte recon engine I can get for £750, which is good I think (all new bearings/belts/etc).

Rav4 'Box for £200.

But will it fit in a clubman front without extending the front?
and will it sit to high to close the bonnet?

Opinions...
thanks thus far. Dave

[Pete_H]

http://www.miniboost.no/video/index.htm

first video is the crash

[Purtsi]

What on earth happened there??? Did they loose a wheel or something?

[Lofty]

What on earth happened there??? Did they loose a wheel or something?

Looks that way, or bottom arm etc?

Has anyone seen an 3sgte engine fitted in a mini?

Not sure its going to fit with rav4 'box.
Dave

[evolotion]

teh 3sgte tilts rearwards, see no reason why it wont fit, but it will require extensive bulkhead modifications. but if your conemplating a 4x4 mini this ought not to phase you too much.

[Lofty]

I dont mind chopping the bulkhead with a really big grinder at all.

Just thinking this all through before I buy anything, and what do front engined rwd guys do with there driveshaft / exhaust / gearshift linkage?

and do you think the gearbox will stick through the bulkhead atall? because that would suck!
Dave

[evolotion]

rav4 is a hydro clutch and cable gears, exhaust tunel ought to be able to accomodate the prop and an exhaust with some tweaking. try get a look under a rav 4 and celica gt-four if you can to give you a feel for the parts.

[MattG]

rav4 is a hydro clutch and cable gears, exhaust tunel ought to be able to accomodate the prop and an exhaust with some tweaking. try get a look under a rav 4 and celica gt-four if you can to give you a feel for the parts.

this sounds very interesting ...

[Lofty]

Yeah, I tryed looking on the web and gearbox's on and off rav4's, but its hard to tell on a 4x4.

With the diff lock on the rav4, is it much bigger than the GT-four's box?

Sounds like its going to be an imense build, which is kind of what I wanted, so I can use it as a CV (portfolio) at the same time as having a dream build.

I used to have a jacked up hilux which was obviousally 4x4, and I miss the traction I got from that. (wasnt a stinky derv, was a 2.4 petrol).

Cant wait, although I have to, I need a little more overtime to pay for this monster.
Dave

[evolotion]

the actuator for the diff lock is huge, like a brake servo. but you could replace it with smoething a bit more compact, all it does is moove a splined female part over a splined male part inside the box, moves about an inch. you could even use the choke controll on a mini lol. the gt-four is best for a look under as its much tighter than the rav sp will give a beter idea on clerances etc.

[matt]

Seems pointless this 4 wheel drive rubbish. A good front wheel drive A series mini would be quicker on a track. Unless you can add 4 wheel drive with only around 50kg being added on its a waste of time. Also would be boring to drive with no wheelspin. Keep it cheap and simple.

Complication and big money isnt fun. Get in your minis and drive them :lol:

[MattG]

because its 4x4 :)

dennis , whats the wiring/ecu like on those engines ? is it worth keeping it stock .. or go stright to MS ?

Matt

[Marcus Nordblom]

http://www.miniboost.no/video/index.htm

first video is the crash

one of the guys in the vid must be from Gothenburg:D,
funny vid if you speak swedish, very pleased that it went well though!

"O herre jävlar", – Gothenburg trademark:cool:

[evolotion]

because its 4x4 :)

dennis , whats the wiring/ecu like on those engines ? is it worth keeping it stock .. or go stright to MS ?

Matt

wiring is a pice o piss... however worth converting to a rev 3 map based system or ms. the mass air flow meter is a pita and a restriction!

matt.... sorry, but drive one of these things in the rain/snow and you will change your mind. to say its a hoot isnt doing it justice. i am about this cose >< to making my mini 4x4..

[Oz]

matt.... sorry, but drive one of these things in the rain/snow and you will change your mind. to say its a hoot isnt doing it justice. i am about this cose >< to making my mini 4x4..

I have to agree with Evo here, unless you've driven a 4WD in anger you just cant grasp the abilities of the car. I hillclimb a 4wd Daihatsu Sirion Turbo and knocked 6 secs of the class record on my first try, If the car was FWD theres no way it'd be anywhere near as quick. Whilst the FWD is still struggle to kerb wheelspin the 4WD will be half way down the drag course as the traction from a standing start is outstanding

Basically, there is a reason why the Audi Quattro killed off 2WD rally cars :)

[Lofty]

Thats exactly in 'Oz'.

People keep asking me why im doing this, and ive said the same thing as you, but people cant understand these things.

Its not like im going to be using a low range gearbox for those nasty rock clim's I do on the way to work through the desert!

I drive backroads, so quick acceleration is key, and accelerating wheels are no good if they just spin.
Dave

[strudel]

Dont know why anyone would want to build an AWD mini :?

Didn't pick up on your comment first time around. Any progress or are you just installing too many movie theatres? JS

[Lofty]

Didn't pick up on your comment first time around. Any progress or are you just installing too many movie theatres? JS

I went to look at my mates mums Rav4 (dont know anyone with a Celica GT4),
Doesnt look too bad. 'box is lower than I would have thought.

Ive also been to look at a workmates MR2 which he was thinking of scrapping, but I couldnt find an engine number! its a 2L tho, which is what I want.

I also have commendeered some steel tubing for the front and rear subby, but I havent got a shell yet. Keep getting out bid on 'bay. Gurrr.

Other than that, not alot to say, unless you want a pic of some steel tubing in my garage?? Haha.
Dave

[pantera2075]

Mk2 MR2's come in 3 flavours basically.
Turbo 2.0- 3sGTE - big power available.
N/A 2.0 3sGE - not so good
N/A 2.0 3sFE - log.
All are large with large transmissions

[matt]

My point is the average horse power on this site is 160hp and average weight is around 700kg.

If you put this spec car on silverstone full circuit fwd setup it would hands down beat a 4wd car as the 4wd setup would add a huge amount of weight and theres alot of power train lose.

I belive if you want fast circuilt go fwd.
Fast drag racing mid engine rwd.

Look at the fastest minis out there. None of them are 4wd.
4wd fail unless rallying or in snow or bad wet conditions.

[MattG]

Look at the fastest minis out there. None of them are 4wd.
4wd fail unless rallying or in snow or bad wet conditions.

i think that is more down to the fact that there are not many 4x4 minis ....
if any that are anyway used in anger like the fastest minis.

Matt

[strudel]

Dont know why anyone would want to build an AWD mini :?

Didn't pick up on your comment first time around. Any progress or are you just installing too many movie theatres? JS


Lofty,

Sorry about the confusion. My comment was pointed at Minimivic's comment above since he is building an AWD Audi TT platform under his Mini. I didn't pick up on his funny bit of sarcasm on first read. His "Project Minaudi" is in the Other Builds section if you are unaware. JS

[Lofty]

@ Strudel, Confusion over. Haha.

Ive seen the Minaudi project. Good project and skills.
However, I believe if you use a floorpan from another car with that cars driveshafts ect then its not a Mini, its an Audi with a Mini shell welded on top.
Just my opinion, and thats not to say im dissing other peoples projects because I know thats what they want to do and they love it, as I will love mine.

Dave

[Lofty]

Its like buying a bungalow, taking the roof off and putting another story in and still calling it a bungalow...its a house!

Dave

[MattG]

Its like buying a bungalow, taking the roof off and putting another story in and still calling it a bungalow...its a house!

Dave

In my mind , most of the cars built on here are not minis anymore ...but i dont care :)

Matt

[cables]

4wd fail unless rallying or in snow or bad wet conditions.

lol u ever driver a awd car in the snow, they aint all that good, rather have fwd, dry weather is where proper awd cars are in there element on road tyres as they grip so well

[Marcus Nordblom]

my hyundai is very good in snow, very predictable and oversteers nicely out of corners (if throttle is applied and it´s slippery, 1700kgs/140hp ha ha)

[Hayling mini]

My daughters Subaru Justy is simply awesome in the snow, I did 75% of a tank of petrol in 3 days a couple of weeks ago. I have never driven another car in the snow that was anywhere near as good as the Justy. Jerk the steering floor the throttle & your drifting sideways with full control.
The grip is also amazing on normal low profile road tyres, nothing stopped it.

I think the handling varies dramatically with AWD / 4WD cars in slippery conditions, some are far better than others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTey37HyTOY&feature=PlayList&p=28DAD69694EA13B4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=29

Remember this is a 1300 NA engine in a car with almost the same wheelbase as a mini :)


Jerry

[cables]

i think its got alot to do with the front rear bias, im guessing the just/swift and proper 4wd like freelanders are biased to fwd, im driving a impreza which is biased to the rear, so in the snow it might aswell be rwd

[Oz]

My point is the average horse power on this site is 160hp and average weight is around 700kg.

If you put this spec car on silverstone full circuit fwd setup it would hands down beat a 4wd car as the 4wd setup would add a huge amount of weight and theres alot of power train lose.

I belive if you want fast circuilt go fwd.
Fast drag racing mid engine rwd.

Look at the fastest minis out there. None of them are 4wd.
4wd fail unless rallying or in snow or bad wet conditions.

On a like for like basis on big open circuits yes a 4wd will be heavier all though I'll bet it'll corner at higher speeds than the 2WD - anyone remember the 4WD AudiA4 Touring cars - they'd be just as competative in dry and cream the others in damp and wet conditions.

I'll tell you where else the 4wd will benefit is hillclimbing etc - the tighter the course the more advantage the 4wd will give

[Quadra]

On a like for like basis on big open circuits yes a 4wd will be heavier all though I'll bet it'll corner at higher speeds than the 2WD - anyone remember the 4WD AudiA4 Touring cars - they'd be just as competative in dry and cream the others in damp and wet conditions.

I'll tell you where else the 4wd will benefit is hillclimbing etc - the tighter the course the more advantage the 4wd will give

Oz is right about the hillclimbing and probably just as good at sprinting, but those disciplines require traction and power in equal amounts, not high speed. My experience of 4wd at track days, is that the main difference is exiting slower speed corners as it allows more power to be put on the ground sooner. I have a 4wd Dax Rush with about 300bhp and a friend had a very similar car but it was 2wd, at Santa pod there was little between them in terms of times and at track days the cars were quite equally matched, my car understeered a little more than his (probably due to my driving, fast in slow out!) but was quicker out of the corners. The biggest restriction to making a Mini go fast, is the idiot sat behind the wheel.

[Oz]

My track experience in my Sirion is that it would out corner a Cooper S and Golf GTi despite only having a 713cc turbo engine so could easily match them around the track, making up in the corners what it lost on straights

The A4 touring car was so successful that they weight-penaltied it out of competativeness. When the Skyline started racing it was banned as it wiped the floor with the opposition. The german DTM known as the fastest tintop series were 4wd so if 2wd is faster round track why is this the case ? TBH I'd also say a fast track car would be rwd not fwd - the Zcars conversions prove that just by watching the MiniFilms productions.

IMHO :)

[Domcr250]

Personally, I would go down the Swift GTI / Justi route. I had a Celica GT4 ST205 a few years ago, it’s a fantastic car, but as with all Toyota's it’s hewn out of solid steel, all the components were designed for a rally car and weigh a ton. Also it’s quite a wide transverse engine – I assume that the Rav4 transmission would be of a similar design? Good luck anyway.

[Bella96]

by 4x4 you mean 4 wheel drive? or "off-roader"?:confused:


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